Sajid javid

[Worried456776]

news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224

Well done to this docter for standing up for himself.

Antibody vs Natural Immunity from ZOE study UK

covid.joinzoe.com/post/covid-vaccine-natural-immunity-difference

@godmum56
The yellow card reporting scheme of side effects is testament to the fact that a percentage of the population cannot process constant vaccines.

My health has been ruined by prescription medicine. One taken for 3 weeks. The next taken for. 3.5 weeks. Standard meds prescribed to millions of people and not niche in any way, the former of which I took 15 years prior with no issue (birth control). The vaccine has compounded this.

I am suffering the consequences of following the guidelines and getting double vaxxed 7 months on. I and may other simply cannot get boosters.

Where is the compassion for people like me?!

Wow so the doctor is happy to have other mandatory vaccines to enable him to work, and he's seem first hand a humanitarian disaster type scenario through the pandemic in UK hospitals and isn't willing to get vaccinated.

I wouldn't want him working on me or any of my relatives. Absolute numpty.

@Tealightsandd

And when it's a HCP working with some highly vulnerable patients it is not only foolish, it is also negligent.

Agreed.

The thought of someone with such views having power over life or death of patients undergoing surgery gives me the willies.

[quote Worried456776]@chopc

I think he is trying to say what’s the point in the boosters or vaccines because they just wear off and they won’t just continually administer boosters every 1-2 months. I agree with him I’m double vaxed and won’t be having a booster it just cannot be good for your body.[/quote]
But he wouldn't have known that when he made the decision not to have it. I suspect this was his position from the start. I think he is right to question things but irresponsible to promote his beliefs during a global crisis. I agree with pp that he's thinking about his own (very fortunate) position and not considering the bigger, global picture.

I love it how we all say an anesthesiologist knows nothing about medicine/ science etc. and Sajid David actually said 'well lets leave it to the experts'.

The average person wouldn't want a virologist in charge of anaesthetising them, and similarly most of us wouldn't want an anaesthetist trying to interpret a pandemic or in charge of creating new anti-viral drugs or vaccines.

@Milkyaqua - What an odd comment. The only view he expressed was that he already has natural immunity and so isn't choosing to take a vaccine. Why that would give you 'the willies' I don't know!

Now, if he was coming out with crazy, alarming statements like, 'The Unvaccinated should not get treatment' or 'Vaccines should be mandatory for everyone' then I'd understand your fears a little more.

I think the issue is that the “experts” have got it wrong rather a lot haven’t they. I appreciated at the start there were huge unknowns.

But not now. The omicron doom modelling failed to consider natural immunity and assumed a mutation as serious as delta, for example.

We also know that current vaccines do very little to prevent spread or infection. We know this now and yet haven’t adjusted our advice.

It was questioned early whether it was right to jabb non vulnerable teens and deny them the ability to obtain natural immunity. We are now going to have jab those teens again or perhaps they will have to get another variant

I not an expert in any of this but there are several highly qualified people questioning and being shut down. This isn’t healthy and is leading to a very one sided debate and group think decision making process.

I actually feel every sorrier for the care workers sacked over this who earn a pittance, worked without proper equipment throughout the pandemic and who did so without moaning about personal risk. Mainly young women - and we know the vaccines affect the menstrual cycle. These young carers had no voice. Shame shame shame

If Javid sticks to his plans, approx 73000 NHS medical staff will leave in less than 3 months time, that will cause the NHS to collapse completely - though it looks like it has already.

The damage to us all will be huge, far more than allowing folk to choose for themselves, bare in mind, vaccines don't stop transmission as he pointed out.

@Alexandra2001

If Javid sticks to his plans, approx 73000 NHS medical staff will leave in less than 3 months time, that will cause the NHS to collapse completely - though it looks like it has already.

The damage to us all will be huge, far more than allowing folk to choose for themselves, bare in mind, vaccines don't stop transmission as he pointed out.

The cost of this is high. And it feels like being painted into a corner with a poor outcome.

It’s really frustrating to see

I wonder what Javid is thinking today. He is bound to be annoyed at being made to look flat-footed by an ICU doctor who has been working on the covid wards. No doubt his officials will be soothing his ego, telling him he is on the right side of the story.

Yet Javid will know, deep down, there is very good evidence pointing to natural infection being at least as good as vaccination, but he turned a blind eye to that evidence when forcing through the legislation requiring care home workers to be sacked. Now we are getting to the pinch point when the same policy is being applied to doctors.

The "mandatory vaccination" policy is popular in focus groups - it makes sense to most laypeople who only know what the government have told them about vaccination. Same applies to vaccine passports - if vaccination really did reduce the chance of being infected, and significantly reduced the risk of passing on the virus (which is what the government have claimed) then those policies would have a much better logical basis.

Whilst we all hoped that would be the case back in spring 2021, we have known since last summer than wasn't true, mainly because a few weeks after the 2nd jab, protection against a delta infection wanes significantly. And we now know, a few weeks after a booster, the same is true. And omicron makes protection against infection and passing on the virus even worse. Protection against serious disease and death wanes at a slower rate, so for the vulnerable and older people, it is still very much worth being vaccinated. But vaccination then becomes protecting the individual, not protecting others.

So now the government are hoist on their own petard. They continue to implement covid policies based on reasoning from their own rhetoric rather than the evidence. And they have exactly the same problem with mask mandates in schools - they spend 18 months telling everyone masks work, yet the actual evidence from the only RCT trial conducted show cloth masks don't work.

I can see why they got into this problem - every little fib or misrepresentation builds upon the last, until you get yourself into a right pickle.

...then there are the numbers of staff who plan on leaving, demoralised, under valued and over worked.
Even if CV stopped tomo, none of this is going to change.

If Boris has any sense at all, he would give all frontline staff a 10% pay rise right now, expensive but the alternative doesn't bare thinking about.

Is there any process get out to stop this from going ahead?

A situation like this is changeable so there should be for anything planned that far in advance

@AlecTrevelyan006 Mandatory vaccines boosts the Governments narrative that the present state of the NHS is down to the unvaccinated and absolutely nothing to do with under funding and Austerity, esp in social care.

If the gentleman doesn’t want the vaccine or boosters then in society he surely has free will.

It is up to him whether he has it or not. He’s an educated man and if he has reservations about the vaccine that is his view and he is entitled to it.

He shouldn’t be threatened with unemployment or other sanctions for refusing.

The consultant is not stupid. He has natural immunity by recovering from a prior infection. He’s weighed that up that against a new vaccine which has side effects for quite a few people and wanes quickly. He’s young and not obese. He’s unlikely to get severely ill from another infection.
He should be allowed to do his own informed risk assessment and decide for himself.

Indeed

I agree Alec and hope SJ can find a way to abandon this policy. I imagine if they repeated some of those focus groups they would find less support from the public for mandatory vaccinations for health workers. We are desperately short of heathcare staff and the vaccine doesn't do enough to prevent transmission.

Alex I agree with you - front line hospital staff deserve a decent pay rise.

What he says is dangerous. He uses works like 'probably'. He clearly hasn't been in the labs studying this so needs to shut up and do proper research.

What annoys me also is that these Tory's not wishing to discuss further with anti vaxers. I'm sure if they show them people's experiences and data, they may be able to educate them.

It’s funny that a post earlier has been completely ignored so I will repeat. A great number of scientists don’t agree with the vaccine for all a s try to publicly say this but we don’t hear much about it.

You do know that a group of scientists from top uni’s across the states are concerned about the incorrect trials of the Pfizer vaccine and requested the data that was used to decide to roll it out. This was requested under freedom of information. The response was they can have it in 75 years!

Perhaps the doctor is listening to a balance of scientists and not just those being quoted on the news / in papers etc

news I understand a court in the US overturned that and Pfizer now has a mere months to publish! Interesting times

@OchonAgusOchonOh ^You do know polio and measles have not been eradicated? And that no vaccine is 100% effective in preventing transmission*

You do know polio is not eradicated in some countries because of vaccine induced polio strains? It was stated recently some are in the ridiculous situation of having to vaccinate against vaccine polio. In other countries vaccine polio is running at a higher rate than wild polio.

This is because poor countries are having to use the cheaper polio vaccines. Maybe a lesson should be taken from that with regards poor countries and the lack of Covid vax for their vulnerable instead of holding out our bowls to the Pfizer CEO saying please sir can we have some more and pay you shit loads of money for it?!

@newusername2009 it is bizarre that we are only allowed the follow one ‘science’ which is entirely vaccine focussed. Scientists have always claimed in the past that they’ve never been able to develop a successful vaccine against a coronavirus.
Any other theories or research seem to be looked over including the natural immunity ones.

@TalkToTheHand123

What he says is dangerous. He uses works like 'probably'. He clearly hasn't been in the labs studying this so needs to shut up and do proper research.

What annoys me also is that these Tory's not wishing to discuss further with anti vaxers. I'm sure if they show them people's experiences and data, they may be able to educate them.

But lots of things are "probably", we don't know much for sure, it's a novel virus.