What pandemic alert level do you think we are at?

[PrincessNutNuts]

In your opinion which coronavirus alert level are we currently at?

Vaccine passes - just went to the theatre in London and I showed mine no problem. So big events generally have them. Everyone needed to (or a negative LFT) and they were pretty hot on doing so.

Read the Emily Sheffield article I linked. Your experience at the theatre is an exception in England.

In other countries including many in Europe, passes are required for restaurants, shops, cafes, etc.

They're also not pussy footing around with vaccine mandates for the people working with the most vulnerable - health and social care workers.

The UK, or at least England, is only weakly at best enforcing masks.

And you ignored the last mitigation I mentioned. Ventilation - HEPA filters or the cheaper DIY corsi-rosenthal boxes.

Still, I hope regardless of everything else, that you enjoyed your trip to the theatre. It's good to (safely with appropiate mitigations) support the industry.

@PrincessNutNuts

There's nothing more concrete than two years of real world results *@Quartz2208*.

But Omicron is different - it is a different strain. So 2 years of real world results have been with different variants with an aim I think of vaccination.

And that has taken us to now. Dealing with a very different virus to 2 years ago and can we really now just go - well it worked before it will work now.

Because the current real time data isn't showing that to me at all. Its showing that whatever we learnt in the past 2 years we may need to face up to the fact the game has changed.

I don't think anyone on this thread underestimates the seriousness of Covid, of the real dangers and issues hospitals are facing in the NW or how debilitating long covid can be and how aware we need to be.

Neither do I see any particular anti mask or anti vaccine sentiment as being valid mitigations at trying to get through this.

Stating that the initial chart is based on a Covid Variant that to all intents and purposes no longer exists and needs to be realistically updated and questioning whether mitigations that worked in the past to buy us time to vaccinate (and we are almost at peak vaccination) would work is actually going to help going forward.

@DockOTheBay

Obviously the system is really out of date now. We will never get to alert level 1, and yet we dispensed with social distancing months ago when still in level 3.

I agree

Like tiers various tools become irrelevant as the situation changes

In other countries including many in Europe, passes are required for restaurants, shops, cafes, etc.

Purely for the benefit of others reading the thread, because I know tealights will never respond to this point, despite it being brought up numerous times, cases are rising in countries that have these mitigations in place, in some cases to a higher rate than the UK/England so they aren't making that much of a difference.

It's another thing we have to live with/die from.

Yes. And, just like seat belts, child seats, and drink drive laws and other mitigating safety measures, living with a disease that kills and disables means mitigations. For now that means masks, vaccine passes, and good ventilation.

Longer term that might mean annual boosters, at least for the vulnerable, continued good ventilation, and adopting the East Asian civic minded culture of wearing a mask when ill out of courtesy to those around us particularly the vulnerable.

But in the future we'll also have more of the world vaccinated (this is an essential goal - morally right, but also to reduce the likelihood of mutations). Plus we'll have wider availability of new treatments, and more knowledge and understanding of this still new disease.

@Tealightsandd

Vaccine passes - just went to the theatre in London and I showed mine no problem. So big events generally have them. Everyone needed to (or a negative LFT) and they were pretty hot on doing so.

Read the Emily Sheffield article I linked. Your experience at the theatre is an exception in England.

In other countries including many in Europe, passes are required for restaurants, shops, cafes, etc.

They're also not pussy footing around with vaccine mandates for the people working with the most vulnerable - health and social care workers.

The UK, or at least England, is only weakly at best enforcing masks.

And you ignored the last mitigation I mentioned. Ventilation - HEPA filters or the cheaper DIY corsi-rosenthal boxes.

Still, I hope regardless of everything else, that you enjoyed your trip to the theatre. It's good to (safely with appropiate mitigations) support the industry.

I have to say mask wearing as far as I can see going out is pretty high where I live (London) but cannot speak for the rest of the UK.

I can say that my experience at a West End Theatre isnt the exception - both the LW Theatre Group and Delfont Macintosh (who make up quite a lot of the larger West End shows) ask and have done since they opened. Again though it is just the big theatre groups that I have experienced so am not sure about other ones.

I did read the Emily Sheffield article and I get the benefits of vaccine passes and mandates but still it doesn't sit right with me. I am not sure it doesn't cross a line for me and I am not sure is a discussion that can be had without recognising that. It really does come down to whether you can overrule the concept of

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

So is our situation now with Omicron and vaccines better or worse than our covid situation for the past two years @Quartz2208

4
But that is mainly due to NHS staff sickness levels
Without that it would be 3

@Bordois

In other countries including many in Europe, passes are required for restaurants, shops, cafes, etc.

Purely for the benefit of others reading the thread, because I know tealights will never respond to this point, despite it being brought up numerous times, cases are rising in countries that have these mitigations in place, in some cases to a higher rate than the UK/England so they aren't making that much of a difference.

Rising higher from a lower rate in the first place. We already had a high 'stable' rate of 100s a week being killed by it.

Also, our rates will go down. Because we have a test shortage.

And this is the important difference. Their case rates start to rise and they take action.

Also, our rates will go down. Because we have a test shortage.

To clarify. Our official rates will go down.

I've spent far too long on here today. Time for a late DVD with DP.

Goodnight all.

I have to say mask wearing as far as I can see going out is pretty high where I live (London) but cannot speak for the rest of the UK.

Pretty high where I live too.

Is mandatory in Italy, even outdoors now, plus there's the green pass system - every venue you have to show your pass to enter and there are random spot checks on your documents by the police. Not making much difference in case levels though - omicron is so widespread and transmissable that masks and vaccinations make little impact on getting the virus.

Thankfully the vaccines are doing the job when it comes to illness resulting from contracting the virus though.

@Tealightsandd

Also, our rates will go down. Because we have a test shortage.

To clarify. Our official rates will go down.

I've spent far too long on here today. Time for a late DVD with DP.

Goodnight all.

Nighty-Night.

@PrincessNutNuts

So is our situation now with Omicron and vaccines better or worse than our covid situation for the past two years *@Quartz2208*

What do you think it is then @PrincessNutNuts? Again always quick to ask or add in something but never actually writing your own.

And this is the important difference. Their case rates start to rise and they take action.

Yes, that has already been answered earlier in the thread too.

The hospital issue now isn't so much that they have more patients than they could normally cope with as they have fewer staff than they need to deal with those patients.

@MrsElijahMikaelson1

4 But that is mainly due to NHS staff sickness levels Without that it would be 3

It's not just NHS, though. Other vital services are being badly affected by staff absence.

Just before I log off.

You see this is why data is better than anecdotes. You say mask wearing is high in your part of London Bordois That is not an experience I share (also London). Nor is it backed by recent reports of relatively high non compliance on the tube (Sadiq Khan has spoken about this as being one of his frustrations).

Definitely time for me to log off. Too tired and replying to the wrong poster!

Apologies. They last post should have been in response to Quartz not Bordois.

Right. Really am going now. Night all (again).

Where did I mention London?

3rd times the charm...

@Tealightsandd

Definitely time for me to log off. Too tired and replying to the wrong poster!

Apologies. They last post should have been in response to Quartz not Bordois.

Right. Really am going now. Night all (again).

Yes quite I agree with you. Which is why I ask for actual data about mitigations that are actually working for Omicron.

Depends on whether you are following data or science or a blurred distortion of the two? Based on the data due to the high preveliance of positive cases we would be at a 4, based on science due to vaccines, behavioural responses and a less deadly virus 1. Basing the data due to the guidelines due to testing and isolation impacting in the NHS a 5. The chart above is not a probable outcome due to the change of a more transmitaable yet less serious variant and therfore null and void!

@Tealightsandd

Vaccine passes - just went to the theatre in London and I showed mine no problem. So big events generally have them. Everyone needed to (or a negative LFT) and they were pretty hot on doing so.

Read the Emily Sheffield article I linked. Your experience at the theatre is an exception in England.

In other countries including many in Europe, passes are required for restaurants, shops, cafes, etc.

They're also not pussy footing around with vaccine mandates for the people working with the most vulnerable - health and social care workers.

The UK, or at least England, is only weakly at best enforcing masks.

And you ignored the last mitigation I mentioned. Ventilation - HEPA filters or the cheaper DIY corsi-rosenthal boxes.

Still, I hope regardless of everything else, that you enjoyed your trip to the theatre. It's good to (safely with appropiate mitigations) support the industry.

They aren't working against Omicron though. Pointless.

@Tealightsandd

Could you encapsulate in a sentence or two what exactly you think the government should do, as I’m confused because so many long posts back and forth that I’ve rather lost your point

@PrincessNutNuts

So is our situation now with Omicron and vaccines better or worse than our covid situation for the past two years *@Quartz2208*

And the morning prize for the dumbest question goes to....

And rather that consistently posting questions, why don't you actually share your thoughts and opinions? Starting with this question?