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Covid

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I’m concerned that Mumsnet are not doing enough to tackle misinformation

211 replies

Beadebaser · 04/01/2022 16:21

I might end up getting a ban, or my thread deleted. But I am concerned. I’ve seen more anti-vaxx material discussed here than on any other social media platform.

And the way it is discussed concerns me. A potentially vulnerable person poses a question - and then others appear to ‘jump’ on this post giving advice that is contrary to the NHS guidelines.
I’m all for a debate in ‘normal’ times - but while things are pretty critical for the NHS/schools - shouldn’t we be doing all we can to support them and each other?
Yesterday I reported a post explaining in detail to Mumsnet why it was misinformation. They didn’t respond.
I’ve had a thread removed already saying I’d be messaged personally. I wasn’t contacted.
Mumsnet have a duty of care to their readers. Misinformation and fake news is an online harm.

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Beadebaser · 05/01/2022 13:28

@TheScenicWay

Mumsnet also responded to me saying they felt their readers were discerning enough to spot misinformation. But I’m not sure I agree. I would say that’s an assumption.
I agree that discussion is important - and I don’t want positive, valuable discussions shut down - because the outcome of those discussions is beneficial to all concerned,

It’s the misinformation - the negative, the manipulation that causes harm. And I felt the post I reported had crossed the line.

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nojudgementhere · 05/01/2022 15:17

@Beadebaser

And misinformation is an online harm - so Mumsnet (the qualified professionals who monitor the platform) should intervene.
They do though - all the time. They obviously have a different definition to you though of what misinformation is.

Also, why do people try to equate being vaccine hesitant or expressing an opinion that doesn't 100% echo the current goverment guidelines to breaking the law? I personally don't see how the two things are related. Bodily autonomy and freedom of speech are cornerstones of a free society and I don't appreicate being compared to a criminal for upholding them!

Lilifer · 05/01/2022 15:26

@ollyollyoxenfree

As others have said, there are plenty of people on here who will rebut false information very eloquently - and not in a way that necessarily belittles people asking questions or assumes their confusion is in bad faith.

@MistressoftheDarkSide

There aren't enough people to rebut the floods of misinformation that are all over the coronavirus board. Many well qualified posters who spent a fair bit of time doing this have disappeared because it's just a drop in the ocean and you see the same claims repeated time after time. There's also a fair amount of abuse and one excellent poster recently commented she had to stop because it wasn't good for her MH. I was actually PM-ed by someone a while back, asking if I'd been getting hate messages because she had been recieving them due to her (factual, non-offensive) posts about misinformation regarding vaccination in children and teens. Obviously you only have my word for this..for what it's worth.

I completely agree with most of your points and agree that discussion needs to be free, but that isn't the same thing as allowing people to repeat things that directly cause harm. It's also worth bearing in mind that no-one is entitled to a MN account and it's their call as to what they want hosted on their website.

As I said before, I don't necessarily think de-platforming people/anti-vaccine groups is actually that helpful, and it just tends to fuel the cries of censorship, but I'm not sure what the alternative is. Robert Malone just had his twitter account removed, and I have to admit I breathed a sigh of relief because the amount of damage he has done is immense.

I am genuinely surprised by the amount of controversy around Dr Malone and the suspension of his Twitter account. I have listened to him in interviews about the vaccines/vaccinations and general management of covid treatments and whilst I have had the vaccine myself and all my kids have I can't see that he is saying anything particularly dangerous and he's certainly not misinformed given his professional background and experience. He has nothing to gain and a lot to lose from making his opinions known so why would he choose to damage his career and reputation unnecessarily??
samyeagar · 05/01/2022 15:29

[quote nojudgementhere]@Beadebaser - If you had genuine statistics to back up what you were saying then no it shouldn't be censored. Some of the data makes uncomfortable and conflicting reading but hiding this away and pretending it's not there doesn't help anyone. I think you have to have more faith in other people's ability to make judgements on their own vulnerability and risk, otherwise we will become an autocracy and that's something any of us should be wishing for. The government and scientists have unfortunately chosen to infantilise us and not trust us at times with the correct information as they feel (rightly or wrongly) that they should be making decisions on our behalf. This obscuring or manipulating of the truth instad makes people uncomfortable and creates a breeding ground for consipiracy theories which help nobody. I get that you want to protect people and I respect that, but I think that can easily be misconstrued as controlling or patronising if you are not careful.[/quote]
Going along with this, from the very beginning it was clear that there was severe misunderstanding of a lot of things in the public. Most notably "flatten the curve" While many people understood what that actually meant, a sizeable portion of the population latched onto that phrase without knowing what it meant. They understood it to be something along the lines of actually ending covid, stopping the pandemic. There was an understanding of it lasting for a few weeks, then we'd be back to normal.

The thing is, "flatten the curve" was never any of those things, and true, the governments and experts never said explicitly that it was, however, there was very little effort put into correcting the common misunderstandings because those misunderstandings supported the end goal. Sort of a case of it not mattering why a person does it, so long as they do.

And as things dragged on, very normal people started feeling like they had been assured of something that ended up not being right.

A similar thing happened with the vaccines. Early on, they were way oversold in relatively absolute terms...if you are vaccinated, you will be safe from covid, you will not have to wear a mask, things like that and a sizeable portion of the population took that at absolute face value, and since that misunderstanding supported the vaccination efforts, little was done to clarify the language...the vaccine will probably keep you safER from covid... It wasn't until breakthrough infections started being noticed in numbers that caught the medias attention, that the messaging changed to the vaccine lessening symptoms.

Those types of things, especially in a higly polarized, political, tribal environment may serve the ends in the short term, but any short term gains are utterly destroyed by the lack of trust it fosters.

BambinaJAS · 05/01/2022 17:37

Agree that the messaging from the English Government in Westminster has been terrible.

Boris has also made matters worse by not following his own rules.

Thats why we have so much chaos right now in England.

If the PM does not have to follow the rules, why should I?

The psychology here is simple but also devastating for infection control.

Totally self-inflicted too.

samyeagar · 05/01/2022 18:07

@BambinaJAS

Agree that the messaging from the English Government in Westminster has been terrible.

Boris has also made matters worse by not following his own rules.

Thats why we have so much chaos right now in England.

If the PM does not have to follow the rules, why should I?

The psychology here is simple but also devastating for infection control.

Totally self-inflicted too.

And along these same lines, and very bizarre to me, are the very vocal ones about following the science, doing what the leaders tell us to do, very rigidly supportive of things like closing schools, and now are upset that the same decision makers decided not to close the schools. Same thing with the mask mandates. Rabidly support the guidelines, then getting angry when they are relaxed.
Beadebaser · 05/01/2022 19:51

@samyeagar that was never the impression I got - can you link me to past news reports where the to be public were told - if you have the vaccine you will be completely safe from Covid and no one will need to wear a mask?
That was never my understanding, and I’m not sure where you got that message from?

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Beadebaser · 05/01/2022 19:52

Similarly - who are those people? I don’t know of anyone who is rabidly following the guidelines?

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Beadebaser · 05/01/2022 19:54

My understanding has always been that no strategy has been ‘sold’ as a be all and end all. Viruses mutate.

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Beadebaser · 05/01/2022 20:05

I certainly haven’t seen these ‘rabid’ guideline followers waving their placards to ‘shut the school’ and ‘wear your mask’.

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milkyaqua · 05/01/2022 21:31

I am genuinely surprised by the amount of controversy around Dr Malone and the suspension of his Twitter account. I have listened to him in interviews about the vaccines/vaccinations and general management of covid treatments and whilst I have had the vaccine myself and all my kids have I can't see that he is saying anything particularly dangerous and he's certainly not misinformed given his professional background and experience. He has nothing to gain and a lot to lose from making his opinions known so why would he choose to damage his career and reputation unnecessarily??

Who knows why. Anyone can be susceptible to mental illness or delusional thinking. I am surprised that you are surprised that Malone has been permanently suspended from Twitter for propagating misinformation, giving it is pretty easy to find what misinformation he has spread.

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