I’m concerned that Mumsnet are not doing enough to tackle misinformation

[Beadebaser]

I might end up getting a ban, or my thread deleted. But I am concerned. I’ve seen more anti-vaxx material discussed here than on any other social media platform.

And the way it is discussed concerns me. A potentially vulnerable person poses a question - and then others appear to ‘jump’ on this post giving advice that is contrary to the NHS guidelines.
I’m all for a debate in ‘normal’ times - but while things are pretty critical for the NHS/schools - shouldn’t we be doing all we can to support them and each other?
Yesterday I reported a post explaining in detail to Mumsnet why it was misinformation. They didn’t respond.
I’ve had a thread removed already saying I’d be messaged personally. I wasn’t contacted.
Mumsnet have a duty of care to their readers. Misinformation and fake news is an online harm.

@treesandrocks

I've seen almost no anti-vaxx stuff on here. Is it just things you personally disagree with and want removed, do you think? Do you back your thoughts and opinions on these posts up with facts from NHS and other approved medical sites, while you're reporting them?

That must be because it's already been deleted or you don't read many covid threads.

Ther is anti vax nonsense every day sometimes poorly disguised sometimes not.

I'm absolutely not anti vax. Most people on here are intelligent and rational and don't do what another poster tell them too. It's an open forum.

The vaccine keeps you safe from covid.
The vaccine does not stop the spread of covid.

By current definition, both of those statements are misinformation.

No you can’t shut down free speech. And it doesn’t matter if it’s “being presented as fact!” You have to allow people to seek all the information they wish to and then assimilate accordingly.

Where does it end if you decide to shut free speech down on this particular issue? I do find it very worrying that some people want this.

@Newyearoldyou

I'm absolutely not anti vax. Most people on here are intelligent and rational and don't do what another poster tell them too. It's an open forum.

It's not about a single poster, it's the issue with sustained, huge amounts of misinformation on most threads. This absolutely has an impact on people's perception of vaccination in terms of safety and efficacy, and has the potential to do real harm.

This is why other forums like twitter and reddit have taken a much harder stance on removing health & vaccine misinformation.

There appears to be a real targeted attempt at discouraging pregnant women to be vaccinated on here, for example, which is genuinely dangerous as this vaccine is strongly recommended in pregnancy for maternal and foetal safety.

Serious question..are you referring to the discussion I.e. Differing of opinion on vaccines? If so, YABVU

Mis-information should be challenged and removed, yes. But it is not right to shut down discussion about vaccine side-effects, criticism of lockdowns etc. A lot of time when people call for certain threads to be deleted, it is because they disagree with what is being said in them.

Saying that, I don't think the MN mods have time to properly fact check what is being said here.

I have seen people who are anxious about getting the vaccine being labelled anti-vaxxers, people who struggle with lockdowns being accused of wanting "bodies to pile high", those who had Covid very mildly being told they are Covid minimisers etc. It is concerning that only one side is accepted as a topic of discussion.

@XenoBitch

Mis-information should be challenged and removed, yes. But it is not right to shut down discussion about vaccine side-effects, criticism of lockdowns etc. A lot of time when people call for certain threads to be deleted, it is because they disagree with what is being said in them.

Saying that, I don't think the MN mods have time to properly fact check what is being said here.

I have seen people who are anxious about getting the vaccine being labelled anti-vaxxers, people who struggle with lockdowns being accused of wanting "bodies to pile high", those who had Covid very mildly being told they are Covid minimisers etc. It is concerning that only one side is accepted as a topic of discussion.

You are conflating misinformation and discussion.

Misinformation should be deleted - it is not shutting down free speech, as another post put it. It is about using the media responsibly, eg the saying "you don't shout 'fire' in a crowded theatre".

Discussion is something else. If the discussion is misinformation then, yes, it should be deleted. But it should not be deleted on the basis of "I disagree" but "this is wrong and therefore dangerous".

50 years ago, had social media existed - would people have had debates about race, made harmful statements - and claimed it was ok to state this under their right to ‘freedom of speech’.

Society has progressed forward since then /we are better educated/we now know - or I would hope the majority of us know - that harmful statements about race are wrong. There is a cultural pressure against if - and laws against it.
Misinformation/fake news is a relatively new online harm - so perhaps the education/laws aren’t fully in place/honed sufficiently. I do think in 5/10 years time there will be far better awareness.

I agree. Every day you will now have a 'I am scared of having the vaccine please reassure me' type of thread absolutely set up for all the usual posters to give misinformation e.g. quite understand you are scared because...' However I think we are now at a point when minds are made up and these threads make little difference. I think throughout the pandemic the coronavirus threads have been dreadful for misinformation and scaremongering - MN needed to step up a lot sooner.

@XenoBitch

Mis-information should be challenged and removed, yes. But it is not right to shut down discussion about vaccine side-effects, criticism of lockdowns etc. A lot of time when people call for certain threads to be deleted, it is because they disagree with what is being said in them.

Saying that, I don't think the MN mods have time to properly fact check what is being said here.

I have seen people who are anxious about getting the vaccine being labelled anti-vaxxers, people who struggle with lockdowns being accused of wanting "bodies to pile high", those who had Covid very mildly being told they are Covid minimisers etc. It is concerning that only one side is accepted as a topic of discussion.

I can't tell you how many people have tried their hardest to convince me that my heart palpatations, that I had never had before in my life until a couple of weeks after I received my first vaccine dose and continue to this day, try to categorically deny that there could be any possible connection. I have literally been called "dangerous", "anti-vaxx", accused of spreading "misinformation" for even daring to suggest they are related. It all really has the same look as those who rabidly adhere to and defend their religion.

The post I asked to be deleted yesterday was linking a video/weblink that showed unverified vaccine damage. Mumsnet refused to remove it.
I then explained in more detail - they said their decision was final/that I could turn off posts from specific posters.

I then linked Mumsnet to a reliable news report - stating how and why it was misinformation - and they just didn’t respond any further.

Surely it would be resonable for those that that have had say, 20+ posts deleted because they contain misinformation are banned from the forum?

You see the same old names repeatedly getting stuff deleted but apparently are merrily allowed to continue peddling their nonsense.

@samyeagar

I find that bizzare.

Myo/pericarditis is a known (rare) side effect from coronavirus infection & the vaccines. Not sure why anyone would try to persuade you otherwise when this link has already been established.

It's opinion. We are all allowed opinion.. it's a bloody discussion forum!!

Of course. But what you aren’t allowed is your own facts. There’s a fair bit of misinformation peddled which has no basis in fact. That’s the problem.

but op....YOU say your source was reliable and the video wasn't.....this is YOUR opinion

who gets the final say on whats approved or not...and by whom?

how do you prove the right 'information' though?

Yabu

@samyeagar while I fully sympathise with your situation - it is anecdotal evidence.

From my anecdotal evidence - not one of my friends and family have had any issues other than a sore arm.
So from my anecdotal evidence I could say the vaccine is 100 percent safe. But I know that’s not true.
That is why we need to look at the global statistics. Which state -over and over again- that your risk from Covid is far far far greater than your risk from the vaccine.

I think you have to separate:

1. Deliberate misinformation

1. Ignorant/uneducated opinions/views

(2) is obviously a problem, but its something that we all have to deal with as a group now.

(1) is downright criminal and we should have zero tolerance for it.

I can't tell you how many people have tried their hardest to convince me that my heart palpatations, that I had never had before in my life until a couple of weeks after I received my first vaccine dose and continue to this day, try to categorically deny that there could be any possible connection. I have literally been called "dangerous", "anti-vaxx", accused of spreading "misinformation" for even daring to suggest they are related. It all really has the same look as those who rabidly adhere to and defend their religion.

As is my alopecia, which started the week after my first vaccination.

Or the diagnosis of polycythemia after my second.

But, I have looked at the data available, realised that yellow card has a tiny number of reports of all of these and concluded it is far, far more likely that these are correlated, but have no causation.

I did x and then y happened is one of the most common bits of misinformation out there.

@GirlInACountrySong it’s not necessarily about being ‘100% right’ or ‘perfect’ - but more about following the global consensus of medical opinion. Which would feed into the NHS guidelines.

how do you prove the right 'information' though?

Ahh, the “alternative facts” defence.

If you get to adulthood without being able to discern what is credible and what isn’t when it comes to information that can be pretty well backed up by science, you’ve got bigger problems.

@BambinaJAS I agree with you there. But one group is preying upon the other group.

[quote Beadebaser]@samyeagar while I fully sympathise with your situation - it is anecdotal evidence.

From my anecdotal evidence - not one of my friends and family have had any issues other than a sore arm.
So from my anecdotal evidence I could say the vaccine is 100 percent safe. But I know that’s not true.
That is why we need to look at the global statistics. Which state -over and over again- that your risk from Covid is far far far greater than your risk from the vaccine.[/quote]
Most of the posts on MN are people asking about the experiences of others. Covid/vaccine is no different, and people talking about their experiences, whether they be positive or negative, should not be silenced.