I’m concerned that Mumsnet are not doing enough to tackle misinformation

[Beadebaser]

I might end up getting a ban, or my thread deleted. But I am concerned. I’ve seen more anti-vaxx material discussed here than on any other social media platform.

And the way it is discussed concerns me. A potentially vulnerable person poses a question - and then others appear to ‘jump’ on this post giving advice that is contrary to the NHS guidelines.
I’m all for a debate in ‘normal’ times - but while things are pretty critical for the NHS/schools - shouldn’t we be doing all we can to support them and each other?
Yesterday I reported a post explaining in detail to Mumsnet why it was misinformation. They didn’t respond.
I’ve had a thread removed already saying I’d be messaged personally. I wasn’t contacted.
Mumsnet have a duty of care to their readers. Misinformation and fake news is an online harm.

Two threads got zapped last night where people much more pro-vax than myself discussed their vaccine injuries. Clearly an example of wrongthink.

It seems like dangerous ground; you are perfectly entitled to an opinion or a belief as long it's listed on 'The Menu.'

@Bhrb

Two threads got zapped last night where people much more pro-vax than myself discussed their vaccine injuries. Clearly an example of wrongthink.

There's so many posts and threads on vaccine side effects

I highly doubt they were deleted purely because someone was asking genuine questions/complaining/describing their situation

@RampantIvy but the error in that way of thinking is that there's a self-appointed person who decides what's 'nonsense' and who is 'gullible'.

No-one should have that power. Plenty of examples in history and in current regimes that show how that type of thinking evolves into dictatorships/religious states/totalitarian societies.

You need free flow of information and freedom to express a view, otherwise how are any of us free?

[quote Absii]@RampantIvy but the error in that way of thinking is that there's a self-appointed person who decides what's 'nonsense' and who is 'gullible'.

No-one should have that power. Plenty of examples in history and in current regimes that show how that type of thinking evolves into dictatorships/religious states/totalitarian societies.

You need free flow of information and freedom to express a view, otherwise how are any of us free? [/quote]
Hear, hear!

you’re not wrong

@riveted1Actually the periods thing is exactly where misinformation becomes very subjective. People who raised this were routinely accused of spreading misinformation, conspiracy theories etc. And now it's been officially confirmed as a side effect, after a formal study confirmed it does seem quite common. Whether it matters or not is a different question, and that's where misinformation usually comes in - wild claims like it impacting your fertility forever (which is hilarious when you think about it, after all, being pregnant also affects periods :-)).

but six months ago, people who even mentioned this had happened to them were vilified.

Granted, this is in the USA, but a great example of those in charge of mitigating covid have set themselves up by adopting the strong rhetoric that they have, and by rabidly shouting down anyone who questions, let alone openly opposes.

The governor of New York state is just now asking for a more clear picture of the actual impact of covid by directing hospitals to differentiate between hospital admissions FOR covid, and those admissions WITH covid. I mean, why in the hell wasn't that differentiation there from the very beginning? The thing is, that is a question that had been asked for from the very beginning, but those who dared make that suggestion were shouted down as being covid deniers, minimizers, antivaxxers.

but the error in that way of thinking is that there's a self-appointed person who decides what's 'nonsense' and who is 'gullible'.

We'll quite, it's a very arrogant point of view. I'm not sure how people acquire the view that everyone else is stupid in comparison to them.

No-one should have that power. Plenty of examples in history and in current regimes that show how that type of thinking evolves into dictatorships/religious states/totalitarian societies.

You need free flow of information and freedom to express a view, otherwise how are any of us free?

I wonder if it's fear based, I can't think why anyone would spend so much time policing the opinions and experiences of others. Anti-vax statements are robustly challenged on MN. I see vaccine hesitant people encouraged and reassured (obviously some people take the opportunity to tell them how stupid the are) and the thread for people with needle phobia was very supportive.

I find it surprising that some posters are so exercised by other people's choices, the frequently make appeals to the authority of science and data whilst consistently ignoring the data which shows a very high rate of vaccine uptake in the UK.

I always feel I need to point out I've had all my vaccines a the earliest opportunity in case my love of freedom and democracy has me dismissed as a crazy anti-vax, conspiracy theorist.

Of course it's annoying when they just post some crap they saw on youtube, but 95% of readers will recognise it for what it is - some crap. The 5% that won't are already antivaxxers

Very much agree with this - though it also works the other way round - but it's one of the reasons it worries me when so much allegedly reputable information gets posted on that internet sewer, Twitter

I get that it's a quick way for real experts to reach the masses, but just as on here it's very easy for any fool to pretend to be something they're not - hardly helpful with those who believe everything they read and instantly share it, or for the experts themselves for that matter

I find it surprising that some posters are so exercised by other people's choices

I think that it is because some posters feel that some people's choices take away their own choices.

@RampantIvy

I find it surprising that some posters are so exercised by other people's choices

I think that it is because some posters feel that some people's choices take away their own choices.

And because their choices affect wider society.

@FOJN

but the error in that way of thinking is that there's a self-appointed person who decides what's 'nonsense' and who is 'gullible'.

We'll quite, it's a very arrogant point of view. I'm not sure how people acquire the view that everyone else is stupid in comparison to them.

No-one should have that power. Plenty of examples in history and in current regimes that show how that type of thinking evolves into dictatorships/religious states/totalitarian societies.

You need free flow of information and freedom to express a view, otherwise how are any of us free?

I wonder if it's fear based, I can't think why anyone would spend so much time policing the opinions and experiences of others. Anti-vax statements are robustly challenged on MN. I see vaccine hesitant people encouraged and reassured (obviously some people take the opportunity to tell them how stupid the are) and the thread for people with needle phobia was very supportive.

I find it surprising that some posters are so exercised by other people's choices, the frequently make appeals to the authority of science and data whilst consistently ignoring the data which shows a very high rate of vaccine uptake in the UK.

I always feel I need to point out I've had all my vaccines a the earliest opportunity in case my love of freedom and democracy has me dismissed as a crazy anti-vax, conspiracy theorist.

Not so much fear based as much as it is an inevitable consequence of adopting an "ends justify the means" strategy. Rigid "ends justify the means" cannot tolerate even mitigating facts let alone full on opposition. The only way to maintain it is by shutting down opposition, enhancing some facts while downplaying others.

This has all been playing out textbook.

Anyone not noticing the astroturfing by particular lobbying groups hasn’t been paying attention.

And because their choices affect wider society.

Yes. You put it better than I did.

And because their choices affect wider society.

I would argue that a disregard for bodily autonomy is more damaging to wider society. Bodily autonomy wrt medical intervention has to be absolute or it doesn't exist.

So why should I be prevented from telling my factually correct lived experience any more than you should be prevented from telling yours?

Nobody is preventing you. You’ve done it. A few times by the sounds of it. Nobody is suggesting you shouldn’t have. But equally, nobody should be prevented from pointing out to you it is also just as likely there is a correlation.

I totally agree OP, and sadly a lot of angry anti-vaxxers seem to have jumped on this thread!

@AcasterTwins

I totally agree OP, and sadly a lot of angry anti-vaxxers seem to have jumped on this thread!

I have not seen any anti-vax views on this thread.

There is a trend for certain posters to post the same misinformation regularly. They should be banned for doing that. It is more harmful than pbp being banned for creating a post about their fetish for shoes or whatever.

I have not seen any anti-vax views on this thread.

Like so many other terms, this is yet another one that has no meaning.

Like so many other terms, this is yet another one that has no meaning.

It has a meaning. But it is often misused.

I'm here (as I was on your other thread) to give support to the idea that the dangerous lies peddled by the anti-vaxxers need to be deleted as quickly as possible.
Only yesterday morning a (hopefully now banned) poster was recruiting for 2 conspiracy theory well-known groups, both with far right links. Posters on here might be vulnerable and this poster was replying to the OP in a way that came across as caring and lovely and "do come and join us" like the predators that used to hang round bus stations in the 80s and ask you if you wanted to do their quiz and join their "youth group". Because that's what most of these posters are. Predators.
But I'm also here to defend HQ who I think are doing a bloody brilliant job of sorting the "I think vaccines don't work" from "we all know the vaccinated spread Covid as much as the unvaccinated" and "I know 3 people who have died from the vaccine" (hopefully that lying troll has been banned as well)
I report loads of posts, and tbf, most if not all are deleted.

OP you still haven’t posted a link to the thread you reported as misinformation but which wasn’t taken down. How are we supposed to form an opinion on it otherwise? Or are you ‘protecting’ us from it?

Most of the theories branded as “conspiracy” and frequently censored have come true. From “vaccines are for adults only” to “it’s not a man made virus” to vaccine passports. Even clotting and period concerns were dismissed

The more you censor, the more you divide.

If you have a more honest debate you carry more with you.

The latest so called anti vacc rhetoric relates to data in hospitals. Does anyone have any idea about the realities of with/if/boostered or not?

What does “anti vacc” even mean? I think we would encourage more vulnerable people to take it if we had more open debates