I’m concerned that Mumsnet are not doing enough to tackle misinformation

[Beadebaser]

I might end up getting a ban, or my thread deleted. But I am concerned. I’ve seen more anti-vaxx material discussed here than on any other social media platform.

And the way it is discussed concerns me. A potentially vulnerable person poses a question - and then others appear to ‘jump’ on this post giving advice that is contrary to the NHS guidelines.
I’m all for a debate in ‘normal’ times - but while things are pretty critical for the NHS/schools - shouldn’t we be doing all we can to support them and each other?
Yesterday I reported a post explaining in detail to Mumsnet why it was misinformation. They didn’t respond.
I’ve had a thread removed already saying I’d be messaged personally. I wasn’t contacted.
Mumsnet have a duty of care to their readers. Misinformation and fake news is an online harm.

No, there shouldn’t be censorship of opinions, discussion and concerns. Even the scientists don’t agree on everything and some have changed their message as progress has been made and more data has become available. Actual misinformation should be removed.

@RampantIvy

And because their choices affect wider society.

Yes. You put it better than I did.

Individual choice has always affected wider society, that's one of the main characteristics of a free society. People makes choices every day that affect the people around them.

@RichTeaRichTea sorry! No - I didn’t know that - I shall take a look - thank you!

@Thievesoil no - I absolutely don’t think it is absolute, uncontroversial and unchanging. It’s in a constant state of flux, and there is emerging science. What I do believe though is there is a general consensus - peer reviewed, large scale, safer, robust, majority accepted science - which would be the NHS guidelines. I totally agree that the guidelines are not absolute and emerging science will replace/update guidelines once it’s been thoroughly tested/accepted.

@nojudgementhere out of the two insults - childish or patronising - I much prefer being called childish.

This assumes it is absolute, uncontroversial and unchanging.

Do you question your GP in every diagnosis. Do you wonder if that paracetamol is effective?

Of course science changes over time, but it is always based on a rigorous review of the best data available at any given moment and caveats where necessary. Are you suggesting we should ignore all of it because bits of it might change at some vague point in the future?

I strongly agree with you. I’ve reported a number of posts with misinformation to MNHQ and asked what they’re going to do to tackle it and I’ve never had a proper reply

You're completely correct, @Beadebaser - I have brought this up with MNHQ many times now. They've refused to take a stronger stance.

I wish they would acknowledge that platforming misinformation about vaccines contributes to avoidable deaths. It isn't ethically neutral to do so.

@nojudgementhere But people don't demonstrate a strong ability to decide for themselves in a logical, evidence-based way about vaccines. If they did, we wouldn't see a constant flood of anti-vaxxer posts!

@samyeagar Criticising the choice not to vaccinate is not 'scapegoating'.

“Do you question your GP in every diagnosis.”

Why wouldn’t you if it didn’t make sense? As examples my gp decided to prescribe me a cream and antibiotics for something he didn’t have time to examine me for as ‘one of those would clear it up’. I didn’t need to take antibiotics.
He also told me to give a bit of the food that I’d just discovered my toddler was allergic to every day so he’d get used to it.
Good job I didn’t trust him on that and asked for a referral to a specialist.
We should never become passive in our thinking and accept anything and everything if it doesn’t make sense to us. Why shouldn’t we then ask questions?

I’m aware that Facebook/Twitter are also platforms for misinformation - but the nature of Mumsnet concerns me more.

It’s that people often come here looking for advice/looking for help/looking for support.
I’m not sure that is quite the same with Facebook/Twitter - and while those platforms have a duty of care, I would say - with Mumsnet/the nature of Mumsnet - that duty of care should be a high priority. Just because it’s the way the platform works - it’s an advice forum.

[quote Innocenta]@nojudgementhere But people don't demonstrate a strong ability to decide for themselves in a logical, evidence-based way about vaccines. If they did, we wouldn't see a constant flood of anti-vaxxer posts! [/quote]
Not everyone can be as clever as you @Innocenta (& I'm honestly not being sarcastic saying that!) However, what right does anybody have to take away another person's choices just because they deem themselves more qualified or intelligent? If we don't have free will then there's not really a lot of point in being alive!

We should never become passive in our thinking and accept anything and everything if it doesn’t make sense to us. Why shouldn’t we then ask questions?

What makes you qualified to know if a diagnosis “makes sense”? Are you really saying you question every diagnosis from your GP? Why bother going if you know better?

Sure, questioning is good, but when done from a baseline of ignorance, it’s dangerous.

@nojudgementhere but do we have free will? I can’t do exactly how I please because there are laws in society - many of which are there so that we can live together harmoniously and not harm others.

So therefore a qualified professional (say a police officer) would intervene in someone’s free choice if they are breaking the law.

And misinformation is an online harm - so Mumsnet (the qualified professionals who monitor the platform) should intervene.

“What makes you qualified to know if a diagnosis “makes sense”? Are you really saying you question every diagnosis from your GP? Why bother going if you know better?”

What qualification would I need for questioning a gp who told me I should keep feeding my toddler the food he was having allergic reactions? Common sense? Looking up information on it? Anecdotal experience from friends? Asking on mumsnet? Does it matter?
It made no sense to me so I asked for a referral to a specialist so someone more knowledgeable than that ridiculous gp could discuss it with me.
I’m not more qualified than the gp and I never claimed to be but I have a right to a second opinion and learn more about it.

@TheScenicWay - yes you consulted the consensus of opinion - and you did the right thing. I certainly would do the same - not all individual doctors are right, so I’d look online at other credible sources.
And it’s this consensus I’m referring to. Misinformation would be information that deliberately goes against the consensus of medical thought.

Other misinformation I’ve seen on Mumsnet was a link to a video - that claimed it was showing children being turned away from an event, crying because they were unvaccinated. The reality was that they had been turned away because the event was sold out. It’s this kind of manipulation which is very wrong.

[quote Beadebaser]@TheScenicWay - yes you consulted the consensus of opinion - and you did the right thing. I certainly would do the same - not all individual doctors are right, so I’d look online at other credible sources.
And it’s this consensus I’m referring to. Misinformation would be information that deliberately goes against the consensus of medical thought.

Other misinformation I’ve seen on Mumsnet was a link to a video - that claimed it was showing children being turned away from an event, crying because they were unvaccinated. The reality was that they had been turned away because the event was sold out. It’s this kind of manipulation which is very wrong.[/quote]
Like the 16 year old Italian girl who died after the vaccine. Caused absolutely by the vaccine. Undisputedly.

But what MNers failed to include in their anti-vax rhetoric was that the girl suffered from a blood clotting disease and took daily medication which, had she and her family disclosed to the vaccine hub, she would never have been vaccinated on that day, with that specific vaccine.

MN do remove misinformation though.

I reported a post on a covid thread just before Christmas which said something about 1 in 3 children having long covid, and that it was proven that the government was covering up the figures of people in holiday.

It was blatant, scaremongering nonsense and disappeared very quickly.

Hospital.

Not holiday.

Chance would be a fine thing.

I agree they should absolutely remove fake news where the information given is demonstrably false but this
I’m all for a debate in ‘normal’ times - but while things are pretty critical for the NHS/schools - shouldn’t we be doing all we can to support them and each other? is terrifying to me. We should have debate at all times, no ifs and no buts.

@Thievesoil

What is “medical science” though?

This assumes it is absolute, uncontroversial and unchanging.

It really, really doesn't, and no doctor or research scientist would ever make such a bizarre claim

@Beadebaser that kind of misinformation should be deleted. I find mners are usually good at spotting it.
Opinions should be allowed. There is absolutely a place for discussion over vaccines as long as it’s not based on lies like they contain a microchip. We’ve never been in this situation before and some people will be anxious, pessimistic and suspicious. That shouldn’t be shut down. Everyone should be free to engage in this as it affects all of us.