How can they still say nothing?

[Purplegurple]

So numbers today over 183,000. How can BoJo and his cronies still be making no statement? No clear guidance, nothing. I'm not wanting lockdown or anything but can't believe they're so quiet over all this.

[quote PinkTree7]@Tealightsandd

The thing is there’s no evidence that vaccine passports actually work. The devolved nations used them and there’s been very little difference in terms of case rates and deaths.

In fact, they’ve been so successful that all the venues that used them have now been closed![/quote]
They work well when used properly. The devolved nations were also badly hampered by the lack of power over borders. Eg. Tonight some Welsh and Scottish people will go to England to mass gather.

Look East. East Asia and some of the Arab countries for good examples of successful vaccine passes.

If nothing else they improve vaccination take up rates. France was one of the most vaccine refusing countries in the world (long before this pandemic). Bookings for Covid vaccines shot up after Macron introduced passes.

Democratic free country? Where's the freedom except to freely spread a contagious possibly lab modified disease?

No freedom to choose assisted suicide and euthanasia.

Increasingly limited freedom for smokers to boost the economy.

Freedom for those whose drug of choice is opium rather than alcohol?

We do not live in a completely free society.

And also, with rights come responsibilities.

That we are not quite as bad as last year doesn't mean the still very high number of cases, rising hospitalisations and deaths, struggling hospitals and exhausted staff is ok. Measuring against last December/January's extreme horror is really not the best comparison.

I see no reason why we should consider any further measures at this point.

You might not, but the experts - epidemiologists, virologists, GPs, hospital and social care staff - say otherwise. I suspect they know best.

Happy New Year, Mr Harper (or is it Mr Brady or Baker?)

Increasingly limited freedom for smokers to boost the economy.

those poor selfless smokers - killing themselves to help out our GDP.

@Tealightsandd

I see no reason why we should consider any further measures at this point.

You might not, but the experts - epidemiologists, virologists, GPs, hospital and social care staff - say otherwise. I suspect they know best.

Happy New Year, Mr Harper (or is it Mr Brady or Baker?)

They may be asking for it, but it isn’t their job to consider the wider implications to society. That’s the job of the government - to balance all of this to make a decision.

And any competent government would be listening to those people, not humming and looking the other way whilst they hope it all goes away.

True Life

There’s also other factors to take into account - that list will always focus on Covid, as is their remit.

@AlecTrevelyan006

My view at this point is that we are doing better than last winter on all metrics, with minimal restrictions. Since we got through that winter without the NHS collapsing, I see no reason why we should consider any further measures at this point. Doing so would be completely incompatible with a free democratic society. We would be accepting that our human rights can be restricted not just in an emergency, but at any time to manage capacity constraints in public sector infrastructure.

We only "got through" last Winter with a month's lockdown in November and then 3 month's lockdown January to March.

I'm no fan of Johnson but I think at this stage it is up to individuals to make their own assessment of risk.

@Tealightsandd
No. We don’t look east. We must never look east. We are not the east and thank god we arnt.
Yes, vaccine passports make for higher vaccination rates, by force and coercion, not by free choice and that was lies serious mass public discontent which is a very dangerous thing as history readily tells us.

@ellyeth

I'm no fan of Johnson but I think at this stage it is up to individuals to make their own assessment of risk.

Excellent. If you'd just point out the people who have covid in any building my CEV mum has to go into and she'll make her own risk assessment from there.

@Northsoutheastwest76

Sometimes I feel that the most anxious people on her were not the sterilise your shopping and not leaving thee house stereotype. But the almost daily I can't take this anymore thread which almost always referred to some kind of restrictions which very ofte weren't even current at the time. But any attempt to explain this was shut down by the read the room brigade. See if cuts both ways.

I think it's like the stages of grief:

@Northsoutheastwest76

Sometimes I feel that the most anxious people on her were not the sterilise your shopping and not leaving thee house stereotype. But the almost daily I can't take this anymore thread which almost always referred to some kind of restrictions which very ofte weren't even current at the time. But any attempt to explain this was shut down by the read the room brigade. See if cuts both ways.

I agree with you.

@Northsoutheastwest76

Sometimes I feel that the most anxious people on her were not the sterilise your shopping and not leaving thee house stereotype. But the almost daily I can't take this anymore thread which almost always referred to some kind of restrictions which very ofte weren't even current at the time. But any attempt to explain this was shut down by the read the room brigade. See if cuts both ways.

What cuts both ways?

But no I disagree the most anxious were generally about Covid

Having your life curtailed is going to be resisted though unless you’re generally ok with that sort of thing. For some people it was likely more comfortable.

I think the CEV argument was valid and acceptable pre vaccines. Now we have them the risk is reduced and so life needs to go on. CEV were already vulnerable pre covid to illnesses, now there is a vaccine in place to mitigate that risk a certain level of risk needs to be accepted. I'm in a CV group and have CEV relatives who agree with that viewpoint.

Lifeisnteasy

I do wonder though if some people will be clinging on to dramatising this as a way of coping with their own anxieties.

That’s also my suspicion - it’s been a great tool for people who are antisocial, work shy, hypochondriacs and Facebook community group busybodies.

What a pair of nasty comments.

@MarshaBradyoThe other side to these comments. Throughout this shitshow ECV people especially with valid concerned were seen to be the hysterical ones.
A phrase that stuck in my mind was a thread where yet another person was bemoaning their child missing out on whatever because we were protecting some 80 year in a nappy. We were in tiers at that point.
Someone posted that the vulnerable should stay at home temporarily to avoid everyone else being locked up. Yeah right. So I explained the difference between shielding and tiers/lockdown to be called a Lockdown Lover.
Before vaccines the ECV did more to protect the NHS than any other group. The byproduct was of course them protecting themselves but it was much tougher.

O and I absolutely hated Lockdown.

And the version of shielding we tolerated to protect DH and the NHS. We couldn't fully shield as I had to work so SD inside the home etc.
Very glad that period is over.

Before vaccines the ECV did more to protect the NHS than any other group. The byproduct was of course them protecting themselves but it was much tougher.

But of course people are happy to give up freedoms when they’re directly benefitting.

Why wouldn’t they be?!

I would imagine it’s tougher going through the same thing for zero personal benefit!

@IWannaWishYouANutNutsChristmas tell her not to go into the building then. She won’t know whether there is covid in it, restrictions or no restrictions.

@Lifeisnteasy but it wasn't the same.
The CEV were told not to even leave the house in the early days.
They couldn't pop to the supermarket or go for a daily walk. Thank God that changed. They were prisoner in their own home. Not for 2 week isolations but for months at a time and there were people on here wanting them locked up till vaccinated.
Their families had a choice. Stay home with them or basically socially distance within the home.
Bares no resemblance to Lockdown or tiers

@Northsoutheastwest76 yes all very awful but they did it for themselves and that is the difference.

If you can’t grasp why doing something for yourself is slightly less noble than doing it for someone else (especially virtual strangers) then I’m not sure if I can help you grasp it.

[quote Lifeisnteasy]@IWannaWishYouANutNutsChristmas tell her not to go into the building then. She won’t know whether there is covid in it, restrictions or no restrictions.[/quote]
Difficult when the building is a hospital!

@user1497207191 you expect hospitals to be a covid free zone?

@Lifeisnteasy you could say they were doing it for others too. If they hadn't shielded they potentially could have taken up a bed for several weeks which wouldn't have been available for others.
That was definitely the Govts thinking as they wouldn't have sent shit food parcels if it wasn't for the greater good.

[quote Lifeisnteasy]@user1497207191 you expect hospitals to be a covid free zone? [/quote]
They’re not but they should be as they’re often the only places that cev people can’t avoid.