How can they still say nothing?

[Purplegurple]

So numbers today over 183,000. How can BoJo and his cronies still be making no statement? No clear guidance, nothing. I'm not wanting lockdown or anything but can't believe they're so quiet over all this.

Prioritised doesn't mean vaccinated before.

That is literally what it means.

Do calm down.

The JCVI stuck with an age based priority instead and prioritised 50 and then 40 year olds.

Except, that didn’t really happen in reality.
In reality,

1. People were able to claim they were carers with no proof needed for a long time
2. There were occupations that were prioritised in Phase 2 that were not NHS-WFH life coaches and lollipop people for example.
3. The 40s rollout was farcical. A delay due to shortages, then releasing one year at a time until 45 then pretty much opening up to all ages then.

A lot of the problems we’re experiencing with Covid including the unnecessarily high Covid related deaths is exactly to do with the morally bankrupt and idiot MPs running this country. Or… you could blame those voting in the idiots running this country?

UK was indeed once one of the worlds greatest democracies. The mother of all parliaments. Hard won on the backs of many sacrifices made over hundreds of years.

That hard won democracy is now carefully and systematically being dismantled by our current lot of MPs. Attacks on all the checks and balances to political power that have been in place for decades: the free press, the judiciary, voter’s rights, the right to protest, the electoral commission, standards in public life, parliament itself, our human rights act. The list is endless and depressing.

Mark Harper… MP for The Forest of Dean who consistently voted for selling England’s state owned forests? That one? Perhaps he hoped to become MP for The Forest of McDonald’s?

@mellongoose

Am. Not Ann.

I am leaving now to collect the ashes of a much loved pet. I would rather leave it there.

Am also really sorry about the loss of your pet . They are family.

"Do calm down"

No it doesn't it means that they be put into phase 2 along with the other groups that were being prioritised by being in phase 2.

I thought Michael Winner was dead ?

In which case perhaps they should have been clearer when writing the press release as it’s open to interpretation.

The press release that starts

“Leading education organisations, children’s services organisations and unions are jointly urging the government to ensure that those working in early years settings, schools and colleges, as well as staff and carers supporting vulnerable children, are prioritised in Phase 2 of the Covid vaccination programme, following reports that the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) is not recommending an occupation-focused approach to the next stage of the rollout.

The government has previously suggested that critical workers, including those in the education sector, could be prioritised for vaccinations after the completion of Phase 1 of the roll-out, which focused on protecting those most at risk of serious illness or death from Covid and is expected to be completed by the end of April.”

? How much clearer did you need it to be?

It's fairly clear.

It's certainly not how the PP presented it.

Another set of union and teacher bashing.

do wonder though if some people will be clinging on to dramatising this as a way of coping with their own anxieties

The anti vaxxers and 'Freeeedooom' chanters? Yes I daresay that's the case for some.

That crew aside, anxiety isn't always a negative thing. It's sometimes a very sensible - intelligent - reaction about a valid fear. Eg. When there's a new highly contagious disease that kills and disables many. A disease that is not only new but is also likely escaped from a lab - and possibly not wholly natural.

As for anxiety wrt unwillingness to turn the other way whilst 1000s of The Others die every week? Well I wouldn't say that's anxiety. More a lack of sociopathy.

I wouldn’t call the anti vaxxers anxious per se, more egotistical & lacking in logic.

Perhaps you're right there @lifeisnteasy

As for anxiety wrt unwillingness to turn the other way whilst 1000s of The Others die every week? Well I wouldn't say that's anxiety. More a lack of sociopathy.

I don’t think anyone has the emotional capacity to be upset over ‘death’ as a whole, we would be permanent emotional wrecks.

Equally the very pro lockdown people don’t really care about people losing their jobs & homes, because it’s an abstract concept affecting ‘other people’, they don’t see the tears and anguish behind it.

You can’t emotionally compute things happening to the rest of the country.

@Tealightsandd

Perhaps you're right there *@lifeisnteasy*

I’m very pro vaccine, I’ve had all 3, I would never support mandatory vaccination but I think you’re a wally if you don’t have it. I think covid is serious enough to warrant a National vaccine rollout & I was supportive of the first lockdown, as I knew they needed to buy the time to find out what it was and how to treat it. I’m not a covid deniar and I’m not blasé about the nation’s health.

I would absolutely support harsh restrictions/further lockdowns if covid had a death rate of, say, more than 10%. But 1%? Less? I don’t think that warrants anything more than vaccines, general awareness of health & trusting people to implement good hygiene. I certainly don’t think it’s worth wrecking the economy, education, mental health and throwing away basic freedoms - criminalising people for leaving their homes, for seeing their family, for fucks sake!

And yes I understand it’s not just about that, that it’s about public services being impacted, about how 1% of the public is still a huge number. But to me - this is my opinion, I believe this ‘cure’ is worse than the disease.

Just wanted to put my view out there.

I take people's point about thinking for ourselves, and yet I think there is a lot to be said for this quote:

'Most people would rather die than think and many of them do!'
Bertrand Russell, The ABC of Relativity
Tags: philosophy-of-life

Sometimes I feel that the most anxious people on her were not the sterilise your shopping and not leaving thee house stereotype.
But the almost daily I can't take this anymore thread which almost always referred to some kind of restrictions which very ofte weren't even current at the time. But any attempt to explain this was shut down by the read the room brigade.
See if cuts both ways.

@Tealightsandd

You do realise that death is and always has been a part of life, and that over half a million people die every year in the U.K.?

Many of which could be prevented through draconian measures. I presume you support banning cars, cigarettes and alcohol, fencing off water and closing playgrounds?

That crew aside, anxiety isn't always a negative thing. It's sometimes a very sensible - intelligent - reaction about a valid fear. Eg. When there's a new highly contagious disease that kills and disables many. A disease that is not only new but is also likely escaped from a lab - and possibly not wholly natural.

And in 2020 that made sense but outcomes for covid are very different now but due to vaccines and to treatments. The anxiety some feel however doesn’t seem to be.

But = both

I appreciate your view. I think civilised debate is good.

I've been very vocal about my preference for mitigations over lockdown if at all possible. If I had been world leader, there would have been no pandemic. Every country in the world would've done pandemic border control for 2-3 months (with real quarantine for genuinely essential travel) and isolating/treating the small number of cases already out there. We can only hope lessons have been learnt for the next potential pandemic.

Prevention is always better than cure - and that includes mitigations over restrictions. Masks - we should never have scrapped the mandate in July, vaccine passes, ventilation including HEPA filters. Sadly we have the 100 'rebel' back benchers. So we didn't take sensible proactive mitigations. I don't want lockdowns. I love going into a thriving local high street. I'm also in a minority on here in that I don't favour permanent full-time WFH. I think it's unhealthy, insular, and miserable for the young or single or poorly housed. But, thanks to the failure to mitigate, we can't just pretend it's not happening. If hospitals are overwhelmed (meaning no care for anyone including cancer, car accidents, and mental health), and there's mass staff sickness (a significant proportion, long term), the only option is some kind of circuit breaker.

The good news is hopefully we won't need to do it for long or repeatedly. We will need to take mitigations for a little while longer but if it keeps the economy going and society running as normally as possible, it's well worth it. Masks, vaccine passes, ventilation. Better than mass death and staff sicknesses, overwhelmed hospitals. And better than lockdown.

There is hope for the future. We just need to get through the final tough part. We need to get more vaccines done - including the rest of the world. But we'll also have wider availability of the new antivirals and monoclonal antibodies like sotrovimab. Plus more knowledge. There's definitely a light at the end of the tunnel.

Wishing you a happy new year. Hopefully we'll all have a better 2022

[quote PinkTree7]@Tealightsandd

You do realise that death is and always has been a part of life, and that over half a million people die every year in the U.K.?

Many of which could be prevented through draconian measures. I presume you support banning cars, cigarettes and alcohol, fencing off water and closing playgrounds?[/quote]
We do indeed all die but usually we take precautions to reduce the risks. And we don't usually have mass premature death in one go.

Also how we die matters. It's best to make it as peaceful, dignified, and painless as possible. The UK, despite the Let The Bodies pile up Covid policy and apparent libertarianism hasn't legalised assisted suicide. Other countries and some US states are more compassionate. I belong to campaign group - Dignity in Dying. Nobody should be coerced into it but it would be kinder to offer the option.

Cigarettes, unlike Covid, are good for the economy Studies have demonstrated that smokers are a net gain for the national economy. Lots of tax revenue and because of statistically shorter life expectancy, lower pension and social care costs. Smoking of course gives the smoker pleasure at the time, unlike Covid.

Freedom. Why are cocaine and opium illegal? They're not contagious and harm only the user. Personal responsibility? Could be a major source of tax and reduce gang crime if legalised.

I believe in balance and mitigation. Don't ban cars but mandate seat belts. Allow alcohol but ban drink driving. Don't completely shut economy for Covid but mitigations eg masks, vaccine passes, ventilation (HEPA filters etc).

Tealightsandd
" Don't completely shut economy for Covid but mitigations eg masks, vaccine passes, ventilation (HEPA filters etc)."

This

My view at this point is that we are doing better than last winter on all metrics, with minimal restrictions. Since we got through that winter without the NHS collapsing, I see no reason why we should consider any further measures at this point. Doing so would be completely incompatible with a free democratic society. We would be accepting that our human rights can be restricted not just in an emergency, but at any time to manage capacity constraints in public sector infrastructure.

@Tealightsandd

The thing is there’s no evidence that vaccine passports actually work. The devolved nations used them and there’s been very little difference in terms of case rates and deaths.

In fact, they’ve been so successful that all the venues that used them have now been closed!

@AlecTrevelyan006

My view at this point is that we are doing better than last winter on all metrics, with minimal restrictions. Since we got through that winter without the NHS collapsing, I see no reason why we should consider any further measures at this point. Doing so would be completely incompatible with a free democratic society. We would be accepting that our human rights can be restricted not just in an emergency, but at any time to manage capacity constraints in public sector infrastructure.

I think your view would be different if your were someone working in the NHS through last winter with the prospect of a worse one to come this year.

@AlecTrevelyan006

My view at this point is that we are doing better than last winter on all metrics, with minimal restrictions. Since we got through that winter without the NHS collapsing, I see no reason why we should consider any further measures at this point. Doing so would be completely incompatible with a free democratic society. We would be accepting that our human rights can be restricted not just in an emergency, but at any time to manage capacity constraints in public sector infrastructure.

Thank you, you’ve just perfectly worded what I’ve been trying to say for 18 months!