How can they still say nothing?

[Purplegurple]

So numbers today over 183,000. How can BoJo and his cronies still be making no statement? No clear guidance, nothing. I'm not wanting lockdown or anything but can't believe they're so quiet over all this.

Any teachers parping on about substandard supply teachers or cover need to think very carefully about the kids for whom school is the only anchor they have. Keep. Schools. Open. Whatever it takes. I'm sorry, teachers, but you will have to suck it up, just like the rest of us

This is just so ridiculously ignorant and highlights why we have such issues with safeguarding vulnerable children in this country.

Any old teacher cannot build a picture of a child for whom school is safe. Multiple different adults will miss things that are vital for our vulnerable children in society.

It's not because the standard of teachers taking over isn't high. It's the consistency they require that just doesn't exist.

And teachers have been sucking up catching covid. I caught it March 2020. I was I'll for 8 weeks. I was off for just the 7 days and worked for free during Easter holidays like many nationally did.

I'm assuming if you're an adult you HE as you have such low opinions of the professionals that work in schools?

Covid is real and sadly some people have died as a result of catching it. But there’s only so much society/government can do. The response has to be proportionate.

To a large extent we simply have to accept that more people will die, the nhs will continue to struggle and a range of other services will be under pressure for a while.

In the meantime for the overwhelming vast majority of people who catch Covid it will continue to be a mild illness - just as it’s always been.

The best thing anyone can do now is get vaccinated and get boosted.

[quote Pennypie]The Spectator produces some very interesting graphs, using NHS data.
According to which, Covid patients occupy 6% of NHS hospital beds (16th graph)

The horrendous effect of all this on other services (hospital waiting times, A&E times, ambulance wait times etc) is very graphically apparent too.

data.spectator.co.uk/category/nhs[/quote]

Jesus - if you think the Spectator, a ring wing mouthpiece formerly edited by Boris Johnson is a good source of impartial data, heaven help you.

It's a regular haven for idiots like Toby Young who have been outed for spinning lies about the pandemic already.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/covid-lockdown-toby-young-newsnight-maitlis-b1783097.html?amp

I will stick to ONS and NHS data sources thanks.

Pennypie I cancelled my Spectator subscription after Dominic Cummings wife wrote an article about covid where she implied they had been in London. Of course later found out to have been hundreds of miles away so a complete fabrication. I wouldn't put any store by anything I read there now.

@SunshineCake1

Surely by now people can make their own decisions to keep themselves safe ?

IRL yes MN no

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/weeklyprovisionalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglandandwales/2021

Released today - most recent figures

Week ending 17 December 12,400 deaths registered in England and Wales. Of these, 755 (6.1%) mention coronavirus.

Sadly, people die every day for all sorts of reasons.

@AlecTrevelyan006

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/weeklyprovisionalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglandandwales/2021

Released today - most recent figures

Week ending 17 December 12,400 deaths registered in England and Wales. Of these, 755 (6.1%) mention coronavirus.

Sadly, people die every day for all sorts of reasons.

So you think 700 excess deaths in a WEEK is OK?

So you think 700 excess deaths in a WEEK is OK?

There were 50,000 excess deaths in the winter of 2017/18 (which over 4 months works out at around 3000 a week), did you complain about that then? If not why?

We’re in a pandemic and people are going to die. That’s the reality. And we can only do much. At a societal level we already accept a certain amount of deaths. We have to, otherwise there is no life.

@trappedsincesundaymorn

So you think 700 excess deaths in a WEEK is OK?

There were 50,000 excess deaths in the winter of 2017/18 (which over 4 months works out at around 3000 a week), did you complain about that then? If not why?

What part of 170k excess deaths in the year to Dec 2021 don't you get?

Why are you so keen to deny the scale of Covid deaths??

Here's the actual data for the same week over the last 4 years - can you see the problem now?

Why are people so keen to avoid the truth that Covid has killed so many people in this country?

The worse death count in Europe. And one of the worst in the whole world.

The answer to your question is because it's Other People.

Likewise the million plus Long Covid disabled. It's 'only' The Others.

ChequerBoard

You said that 700 excess deaths were not ok, I pointed out that there were more in the winter the flu jab failed.
I am very well aware of the scale of covid deaths thanks very much. Amongst that number that you are gleefully throwing about is my mother. But this thread is about what is happening now, this year and deaths are no-where near the numbers they were last year.

@trappedsincesundaymorn

ChequerBoard

You said that 700 excess deaths were not ok, I pointed out that there were more in the winter the flu jab failed.
I am very well aware of the scale of covid deaths thanks very much. Amongst that number that you are gleefully throwing about is my mother. But this thread is about what is happening now, this year and deaths are no-where near the numbers they were last year.

So what is your actual point then?

And where exactly am I 'gleeful' about the terrible scale of Covid deaths? I am exactly the opposite - pointing out the horrific scale and taking issue with those that seek to minimise and deny it.

Deaths per million population - a dozen or so European countries have fared worse than the U.K.

www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

The worse death count in Europe.

Surely you need to look at excess deaths

Britain is not the worst in Europe

www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker

Italy, Spain, Portugal plus others higher

@AlecTrevelyan006

We’re in a pandemic and people are going to die. That’s the reality. And we can only do much. At a societal level we already accept a certain amount of deaths. We have to, otherwise there is no life.

Well 'we' in England have most certainly accepted premature death. Lots and lots of it. So very much more than most other countries in the world.

Yes some people are going to die in a pandemic. (Or left Long Covid disabled). In many countries, relatively few. In the UK, very many. Because most places try to limit it.

Only so much we can do. Yep. Shame we haven't done any of it. Mask mandates, vaccine passes, good ventilation (including HEPA filters), etc.

Good well, bad actually old British exceptionalism --mixed in with eugenics lite.

Wealth is health and health is wealth.

@MarshaBradyo

The worse death count in Europe.

Surely you need to look at excess deaths

Britain is not the worst in Europe

www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker

Italy, Spain, Portugal plus others higher

Great.

Let's play the World Cup of Covid deaths.

However you want to paint it, our death tally is horrendous.

Let's play the World Cup of Covid deaths.

silly comment. If someone claims ‘worse death count’ incorrectly then it can be corrected

If they don’t want that then don’t make the claim.

@MarshaBradyo

Let's play the World Cup of Covid deaths.

silly comment. If someone claims ‘worse death count’ incorrectly then it can be corrected

If they don’t want that then don’t make the claim.

Quite. It goes from ‘worst death count’ to ‘bad death count’ to ‘any death is horrific’ etc…

[quote AlecTrevelyan006]Deaths per million population - a dozen or so European countries have fared worse than the U.K.

www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/[/quote]
Oh wow. So that's ok then. We can pursue eugenics lite policies because a handful of other countries have also suffered huge numbers of deaths

Or perhaps, instead of racing to the bottom, we could look to the many better results. Forget Europe. Look East.

@Tealightsandd what policies are ‘eugenics lite’? Do you know what that means?

@Tealightsandd you said that the U.K. has
‘The worse death count in Europe’ and I provided evidence to suggest otherwise.

Feel free to back up your claim with evidence of your own.

Although, as an aside, every league table has someone at the top and someone at the bottom.

SunshineCake1

Surely by now people can make their own decisions to keep themselves safe ?

How do they do that? There was a case a couple of days ago. A woman with a CV husband lost her job because she took the understandable decision to keep her loved one safe.

Social murder. Is what the group of doctors who wrote to the BMJ in February called it. The socioeconomic risk factors that put people in positions where it's almost impossible to protect themselves.

Right now private landlords can give tenants two months notice. For no reason at all. Evictions are happening in the middle of winter during the pandemic. How do CEV or CV private tenants keep themselves safe?

Moving on. Why are people so so keen on personal responsibility and freedom - making your own decisions to protect yourself, only when it comes to a highly contagious possibly unnatural lab escaped disease that kills and disables many?

Where's the same personal responsibility for smoking in public? And illegal drugs? Why are they illegal? Where's the freedom there?

*Great.

Let's play the World Cup of Covid deaths.

However you want to paint it, our death tally is horrendous.*

So it's eithier worst or it isn't stop going whataboutery everytime you are proved wrong.

@Againstmachine

*Great.

Let's play the World Cup of Covid deaths.

However you want to paint it, our death tally is horrendous.*

So it's eithier worst or it isn't stop going whataboutery everytime you are proved wrong.

I didn't say it was the worst.

Stop attributing comments to the wrong posters.