A possible solution to save the NHS from the unvaccinated

[HappySonHappyMum]

I think by now that most people have had ample opportunity to be vaccinated. Huge percentages of people in intensive care are only there because they are unvaccinated. Most people who remain unvaccinated have chosen to remain that way - excluding those that cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons obviously. Would it be unreasonable to ask the unvaccinated to sign a liabilty waiver that says they agree that their personal choice excludes them from free NHS treatment for Covid? I am not suggesting that they are left to die - that would be inhumane and unethical - but I think they should pay for their treatment as they have made an active choice to ignore medical advice. Their choices are preventing the NHS from providing help for those who are suffering from all kinds of other conditions that do not stem from a personal decision. The money could be ploughed back into the NHS. Is this unreasonable?

This thread clearly wasn’t giving what it was supposed to give…but you go off

Errr WTAF? Are you pissed OP?
Fuck off then fuck off a little bit more please.

I can see where you’re coming from. Smoking is not a good analogy as smokers pay so much additional tax buying cigarettes. Perhaps alcohol pricing should also adequately include costs of additional healthcare (as well policing and crime costs). We’ve also now got the sugar tax. I think dangerous sports could collect an additional payment to cover insurance (tax) for potential NHS costs.

Perhaps gym membership should be tax deductible depending on frequency of use? We could some of the extra money to make fruit and vegetables cheaper. Monetary policy could support healthier life styles.

The NHS is cash strapped. It’s awful to read about ambulance wait times.

The unvaccinated should not pay for their healthcare but what about the vaccinated getting some kind of rebate to reflect they may have saved the NHS a lot of money?

@Zxcvbnm123456

Fuck off op

Unless everyone starts paying for health treatment they need because they chose a different option, including those who drink, smoke, ride a bike...

This. And I am vaccinated.

It's totally unreasonable and would set a dangerous precedent for the future.

Oh do give it a rest. What other activities that you disapprove of do you want excluded from free NHS treatment? Pregnancy is a risk millions knowingly take. What about crossing the road? We do that most days. It can be risky if you're not careful.

Proposals like yours are the start of a slippery slope. YABVU.

@Mamajunebugjones

I can see where you’re coming from. Smoking is not a good analogy as smokers pay so much additional tax buying cigarettes. Perhaps alcohol pricing should also adequately include costs of additional healthcare (as well policing and crime costs). We’ve also now got the sugar tax. I think dangerous sports could collect an additional payment to cover insurance (tax) for potential NHS costs.

Perhaps gym membership should be tax deductible depending on frequency of use? We could some of the extra money to make fruit and vegetables cheaper. Monetary policy could support healthier life styles.

The NHS is cash strapped. It’s awful to read about ambulance wait times.

The unvaccinated should not pay for their healthcare but what about the vaccinated getting some kind of rebate to reflect they may have saved the NHS a lot of money?

Oh that's a good idea. I dont smoke so can I have a rebate for not getting lung cancer?

XenoBitch
Those thousands protesting over the last year shouting about it. It was well documented, not really unreasonable to tell those who think like that to leave.

[quote HappySonHappyMum]@hangrylady The NHS is for everyone. I am not suggesting the unvaccinated are not treated - just that they should contribute to their care as they actively avoided the solution to prevent them suffering for extreme illness.[/quote]
They pay tax and NI.

@HappySonHappyMum

So you all think it's completely unreasonable. I have not said that the unvaccinated should not be treated, I have not said this charge should apply to any other condition, I have said that this would not apply to the medically exempt. Covid is an extreme illness that was unforseen and has devestating consequences. Would you all feel the same way if I told you that 85% of the IC beds in my local hospital are occupied by unvaccinated patients? And that because of this all outpatient appointments at my local hospital have been postponed because capacity has been dramatically reduced. And consequently the treatment that my relative needs has now been postponed for two full years. And that the consequences of this postponement has meant that my relative now claims disability benefits and now needs major surgery? Is the personal choice to remain unvaccinated reasonable now when it has such huge knock on consequences to other people?

Ah yes! The NHS was absolutely thriving before covid wasn’t it. You are concerned about your relative - and looking for someone to blame. Plus, you’ve not even thought this through. How about an unvaxxed unemployed penniless person … they use the ICU - his should they attempt to pay? Slips at the post office? 2p a month? Honestly. Work on being more understanding.

I don’t think I’ve read many more unreasonable OPs than this! I understand you are upset about your relative OP. But you need to be angry with our government for running the NHS at 100% capacity for many years - there is no safety net. Previously it was run at 80% to allow for unexpected events.

I don’t drink and think it’s pretty pointless. I don’t have numbers but I am pretty sure the impacts of alcohol are a greater burden on the nhs than unvaccinated people. Should alcohol be taxed more to fund the nhs? Literally everyone makes lifestyle decisions that negatively impact their health, but we all make those decisions for our own reasons.

@starcup @SockFluffInTheBath This is exactly the situation that my relative finds themselves in. I am not OK with that. This thread is not about hatred or division. I would never deny anybody who is seriously ill with Covid the treatment they need. The truth is though that the NHS already chooses who it treats when dealing with IVF, obesity and addiction. It is often a postcode lottery already if you need medical assistance with any of those conditions.

Deciding the value of a human life based on their beliefs and a certificate?
Horrendous

By extension, do you propose if people do not wear masks, wash their hands, socially distance and follow whatever restrictions or recommendations are in force at point of contracting COVID, they should also be charged?

Vaccination is only part of the defence against COVID.

Yes I am vaccinated. But people are allowed to choose not to.

Consent must be freely given without financial incentive and all that...

How do you decide who has made a choice? Over say, a needle phobia or fear?

The unvaccinated should not pay for their healthcare but what about the vaccinated getting some kind of rebate to reflect they may have saved the NHS a lot of money?

Chances are they have not saved the NHS any money at all. The vast majority of people who get Covid recover fine at home with no NHS input whatsoever.. and that was before the vaccines.
And your comment is hard to take seriously when you have morbidly obese drinkers who do cost the NHS an absolute packet... but are somehow angels for having the vaccine, and deserve a rebate?

YABVU

@Zxcvbnm123456

Fuck off op

Unless everyone starts paying for health treatment they need because they chose a different option, including those who drink, smoke, ride a bike...

YABU

Sorry meant to say agree with @Zxcvbnm123456 and OP is U

Don't be so fucking stupid.

People have reasons for being unvaccinated.
There are people who have severe anxiety.
There are people who have needle phobias.
There are people who have severe learning disabilities and don't understand why someone is coming at them with a needle, so they run (like my son did - although they did give him his first shot when he was under GA for medical investigations).

I have had two vaccines. Not yet had the booster.
I have a health problem that I didn't have before the second vaccine, but may just be coincidence. No way of knowing.

I would never judge anyone for not having had any.
I've seen people in tears because they are so scared of the vaccine, and also terrified of COVID and worried that they will be judged.

Everyone has their own personal reasons, and I'm sure none of those reasons are to deliberately make life more difficult for others.

I don’t think you can withhold medical care. But there does come a point where restrictions need to be considered for those who are putting nhs beds under pressure from COVID rather than restricting everyone.

@HappySonHappyMum I am a staunch pro vac and think that anybody who can take the vaccine and doesn't is an irredeemable idiot but your idea is truly dreadful...What will you do with people who can't pay?

It’s hardly a novel suggestion.

And actually no, I don’t think obesity and smoking are that different frankly. They are both an addiction ^and* a choice. Maybe if someone smokes and has attempted many times to stop - yes, but there are people who choose not to try. But the thing is.. you wouldn’t even just stop there would you - extreme sports, drunken nights out, unwanted pregnancy.. the list goes on.
It’s a very slippery slope to start on. Do we really want anyone actually judging us deserving or undeserving of medical treatment?

@SockFluffInTheBath

My daughter was in ICU earlier this year, they saved her life. Would I have been pissed if a bed wasn’t available because it was full of unvaccinated Covid patients? Would any of us honestly be ‘ok’ with that?

Should I have been pissed that at 2am on a Saturday morning my daughter was moved from PICU initially to a corridor and then onto a ward when she was still in need of intensive care because a drunk teenager injured themselves and needed the bed more?

How is that any different?