Page 3 | A possible solution to save the NHS from the unvaccinated

Japanesejazz · 23/12/2021 20:40

How about people who don’t pay tax shouldn’t get treatment on the NHS?
Why should we tax payers fund the long term unemployed getting free healthcare?
People too sick to work, why should they get free prescriptions and I don’t? I pay tax, NI and for private healthcare.
This is a windup btw
Thought I had better make that clear as mumsnet humour seems to be a thing of the past
The government should make all unvaccinated people wear a badge so we can avoid them though?!?
The vaccine won’t stop you from getting or transmitting the virus but might stop you from taking a bed in a national health service which has been on the brink of collapse for years
The current crisis is due to staffing levels not Covid

XenoBitch · 23/12/2021 20:40

And can we please stop with this "The Unvaccinated" othering bullshit? People who have made a different choice to you are still human beings. Stop dehumanising them.

SockFluffInTheBath · 23/12/2021 20:40

Do you think everyone else is in ICU through unavoidable illness or injury?

no, there was a mixture when she was in there, but there were spare beds. Without Covid they generally always have a bed or two available (chatted a lot with the nurses, not about Covid, just because there’s no one else to talk to in that bizarre semi-dark hinterland).

MrsBerthaRochester · 23/12/2021 20:42

Nhs is not free. The vaccine does NOT stop you catching or spreading covid. The vast majority of folk taking up beds are NOT the unvaccinated, its elderly folk. Same as it is every year during the winter flu season. FACT covid is a MILD illness for the VAST majority. Despite what the fear mongering,lockdown lovers on here would have us believe.

HangingOutWithTheSandman · 23/12/2021 20:43

My dad who needs treatment for lung cancer has smoked all his life. Nobody has ever suggested he shouldn't have that.

Exactly. Only the unvaccinated are a target. 🙄 It’s ridiculous. Many of the choices that we make may result in us needing treatment, but I feel very strongly that we must be free to make those choices whether that’s smoking or not having a vaccination or anything else.

I hope your dad gets the treatment he needs and that his health improves.

Getyourjinglebellsinarow · 23/12/2021 20:44

Why does this keep coming up? The whole point of the NHS is that we all pay in and we can use it when we need it. If certain people aren't going to be allowed to use then why should they pay in?

Most things we end up in hospital for were caused by our own, possibly silly, decisions.

An easy one that alot of us have experienced is maternity services. They cost the NHS a bomb, take up loads of space, and you actively CHOOSE to need the service. Let's charge all pregnant people for their maternity services and for their child's medical bills since you CHOSE to have a child 🙄

MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry · 23/12/2021 20:44

@SockFluffInTheBath

Do you think everyone else is in ICU through unavoidable illness or injury?

no, there was a mixture when she was in there, but there were spare beds. Without Covid they generally always have a bed or two available (chatted a lot with the nurses, not about Covid, just because there’s no one else to talk to in that bizarre semi-dark hinterland).

Yes, so with covid, if the beds were all occupied it would have been because of covid and some other people who were partially or fully responsible for their own illness/injury.

SundayTeatime · 23/12/2021 20:45

Hasn’t Singapore done this? Anyone unvaccinated by choice will have to pay for their hospital and treatment costs if they catch Covid. Normally, the government would pay.

MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry · 23/12/2021 20:45

Why does this keep coming up?

Because there are lots of stupid people and they don’t check with each other to see if they’ve already done this thread.

XenoBitch · 23/12/2021 20:45

@SockFluffInTheBath

Do you think everyone else is in ICU through unavoidable illness or injury?

no, there was a mixture when she was in there, but there were spare beds. Without Covid they generally always have a bed or two available (chatted a lot with the nurses, not about Covid, just because there’s no one else to talk to in that bizarre semi-dark hinterland).

The nurses should not be discussing other patients with you.

jgw1 · 23/12/2021 20:46

@HappySonHappyMum

I think by now that most people have had ample opportunity to be vaccinated. Huge percentages of people in intensive care are only there because they are unvaccinated. Most people who remain unvaccinated have chosen to remain that way - excluding those that cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons obviously. Would it be unreasonable to ask the unvaccinated to sign a liabilty waiver that says they agree that their personal choice excludes them from free NHS treatment for Covid? I am not suggesting that they are left to die - that would be inhumane and unethical - but I think they should pay for their treatment as they have made an active choice to ignore medical advice. Their choices are preventing the NHS from providing help for those who are suffering from all kinds of other conditions that do not stem from a personal decision. The money could be ploughed back into the NHS. Is this unreasonable?

Essentially what you are proposing is that anyone whose health condition is not congenital has to pay for their own care, since almost every kind of health condition is due to choices we have made.

Interestingly insurance companies see it differently and are rarely happy to insure those with serious congenital conditions for instance for health insurance on holiday, whereas they will happily insure those who inflict it upon themselves.

Suzi888 · 23/12/2021 20:47

@Hellocrumpets

Nope, it’s sets a precedent. Do that and then you leave the way for withholding treatment from smokers, drinkers, people who are overweight, people that engage in risky hobbies, the list goes on. It would open the flood gates to everything being someone’s fault, and therefore chargeable.

^ YABU obviously 🙄

Lex345 · 23/12/2021 20:48

The more pressing concern is how to save the NHS from the tories tbh

Mummyoflittledragon · 23/12/2021 20:48

Totes agree hun. Then charge anyone involved in a car crash because they didn’t have to travel by car. And anyone over the age of 70 because they should be dead already. And of course anyone, who is not a net contributor.

smurfsss · 23/12/2021 20:49

Not this again 🙄

Like PP have said, where does it stop? It's either free at the point of use, or it's not.

Awalkintime · 23/12/2021 20:50

They have compared nurses to Nazis and suggested they are treated in a similar way to those who commit war crimes so surely they wouldn't want those same people to treat them? In the same way aggressive people can be asked to leave, I agree they should be asked to leave too if they hold this view of the staff they are asking help from.

redglobox · 23/12/2021 20:50

How scary is it that there are people who think like this? OP, if this is what you really think, you should spend some time trying to re-find your humanity.

XenoBitch · 23/12/2021 20:51

@Awalkintime

They have compared nurses to Nazis and suggested they are treated in a similar way to those who commit war crimes so surely they wouldn't want those same people to treat them? In the same way aggressive people can be asked to leave, I agree they should be asked to leave too if they hold this view of the staff they are asking help from.

Who is "They"?

ddl1 · 23/12/2021 20:51

No. I am a huge pro-vaccinator and do believe in vaccine passports for big events; but I think this would be the thin end of the wedge. The NHS must be free to everyone, or it's not the NHS any more!

NotTerfNorCis · 23/12/2021 20:52

I can understand the temptation to go this route, but we can't refuse treatment to people who make bad choices.

Refusing to be vaccinated is selfish and irresponsible though. It feels like there should be consequences somehow, especially if they infect someone else who then dies or is seriously ill. Yes I know vaccinated people can still catch and spread Covid, but they've done what they can to mitigate the risk.

Beautiful3 · 23/12/2021 20:52

So all drug addicts/alcoholics/obese/smokers, who develop a condition triggered by their unhealthy lifestyle, should be made to pay for NHS treatment? Your idea is horrible. Why should select taxpayers be excluded form the nhs, especially when some others have never paid into it?! What if some are in debt and cannot afford treatment? I think its fair if it remains the same, we are all human beings, who all deserve treatment.

Bigbonesmeatandgravy · 23/12/2021 20:53

I assume you stick to your units, get your 5 a day, don't smoke, aren't overweight and exercise everyday then?
People who choose not to get vaccinated need educating, not punishing.

Veryverycalmnow · 23/12/2021 20:53

The NHS doesn't and shouldn't discriminate- I'd expect to be treated equally to a smoker, alcoholic, drug addict or obese person. If they are more ill than me, treat them first. If someone is getting ill from the virus because they didn't have the vaccine, I'm not going to turn on them and say spiteful things, without knowing their reasons. The fact that people are treating them as 'other' and not respecting them as equal humans is worrying me far more. That's where the danger lies. Once people see another group as lesser or a hindrance, real problems occur within societies in my opinion.
For context, I've been fully vaccinated but know some lovely people who haven't been able to for their own reasons.

ddl1 · 23/12/2021 20:55

@Hellocrumpets

Nope, it’s sets a precedent. Do that and then you leave the way for withholding treatment from smokers, drinkers, people who are overweight, people that engage in risky hobbies, the list goes on. It would open the flood gates to everything being someone’s fault, and therefore chargeable.

Exactly!

XenoBitch · 23/12/2021 20:55

@NotTerfNorCis

I can understand the temptation to go this route, but we can't refuse treatment to people who make bad choices.

Refusing to be vaccinated is selfish and irresponsible though. It feels like there should be consequences somehow, especially if they infect someone else who then dies or is seriously ill. Yes I know vaccinated people can still catch and spread Covid, but they've done what they can to mitigate the risk.

Consequences like what? And why would it only apply to people who have not had the vaccines? Why the assumption that people who are not vaccinated are unsafe and don't take other measures to protect themselves and other people? And why the assumption that people who have been jabbed are safe? I have known fully jabbed people to refuse to test despite symptoms as they think they are immune to Covid.