A possible solution to save the NHS from the unvaccinated

[HappySonHappyMum]

I think by now that most people have had ample opportunity to be vaccinated. Huge percentages of people in intensive care are only there because they are unvaccinated. Most people who remain unvaccinated have chosen to remain that way - excluding those that cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons obviously. Would it be unreasonable to ask the unvaccinated to sign a liabilty waiver that says they agree that their personal choice excludes them from free NHS treatment for Covid? I am not suggesting that they are left to die - that would be inhumane and unethical - but I think they should pay for their treatment as they have made an active choice to ignore medical advice. Their choices are preventing the NHS from providing help for those who are suffering from all kinds of other conditions that do not stem from a personal decision. The money could be ploughed back into the NHS. Is this unreasonable?

I read that 10% of NHS workers aren't vaccinated. Unless these are people who can't be vaccinated? (10% sounds far too high to be the case)

Completely unreasonable.

Can't say I'm against the idea of unvaccinated people having a stay at home lockdown order to keep them safe while the rest of us get on with our lives though.

And what happens if the reason someone has actively chosen not to be vaccinated is not due to a physical reason but a mental health / anxiety reason? It may sound insignificant to you - but it's very real to them (not me btw - I'm triple jabbed).

People who pay taxes do pay for their treatment.

Seriously fuck off my 20yr old ASD son has tried his absolute best to get vaccinated. We even got as far as in the nurses office last week. He is severely needle phobic and is petrified of catching covid but yeah if he did catch it then charge him for his treatment and and guess what I would be paying for that as he doesnt work old triple jabbed me.

How are you going to extract money out of people, especially given statistically the unvaccinated are worse off? How much resource do you need to chase up this money and where does it come from? What about charging for other self inflicted ailments? What about those who are unvaccinated because they’re mentally ill, poorly educated, victims of misinformation, can’t access a centre, have a phobia, have a disability?

I don’t see why covid trumps other life saving, albeit slightly less acute, care though. I’ve no problem with ring fencing part of ICU (or more practically, whole hospitals) for cancer/heart/other urgent ops and just saying “sorry, no more beds available” to the unvaccinated covid patients, but I suspect the medical professionals who’d have to actually enact that wouldn’t agree.

This would be a terrible idea. Medical treatment, including vaccines, is by consent.
Where would it stop? A person refusing another round of chemo because they cannot stand the side effects? A person going to a tropical country contracting Malaria?

I should think being admitted to ICU would be "punishment" enough, if you want to see it that way. People are allowed to refuse vaccines. It may be an unwise choice. We may not agree with it. But it is allowed. Many people choose not to have the flu vaccine every year. Does the same apply?

God really, another one of these threads? I will reiterate which I’m sure many others have that if we do that for Covid then we must do it for the hundreds of other self inflicted illnesses that cause the NHS overwhelming pressures every year (and btw are still the main cause of the NHS crisis, not Covid).

@SockFluffInTheBath

My daughter was in ICU earlier this year, they saved her life. Would I have been pissed if a bed wasn’t available because it was full of unvaccinated Covid patients? Would any of us honestly be ‘ok’ with that?

Do you think everyone else is in ICU through unavoidable illness or injury?

Why don't we just become the US and cut out the middle man? Saves time, surely.

Right I don't want the nhs to be a pick and choose service

But I'd have no problem with people being called in individually to their GPs to have the risks explained to them and them sign a sheet that says the risks have been explained to them

(And I'd have no problem with people having to take private health insurance out to bungee jump/ski/or various other risky sports - I ski, I'd be happy to pay for insurance if I did)

HOWEVER

This must only be accompanied by PAID time off for people to actually get vaccines - a considerable percentage of people do not have easy fucking lives like me and can't get to a vaccination centre easily or without losing money

Have a load of and hope you don't need a hospital.

It would not work unless we moved to a private health system where premiums would be higher for the unvaccinated.

@Badbadbunny

I don't think they should be charged, but they should certainly be at the back of the queue when there are ambulance shortages, long A&E waits, shortage of ICU beds, etc. I think others, such as cancer, heart attack and stroke patients should be given priority for ambulances, treatments, ICU beds, etc.

So where does it end? Where would you put say someone who had a stroke or heart attack due to their own lifestyle choices? Do we refuse them?

People who choose not to have the covid vaccine are automatically labelled anti-vaxxers and viewed as being dim witted. Yet we have oppostion coming up with arsehole ideas like this. It's embarrassing.

Deja vu, had a thread like this before

@DuckonaBike

Refusing care would be unethical, and charging might set a dangerous precedent. But I do wonder if there should be some rationing of ICU beds. Basically if giving the last ICU bed to an unvaccinated Covid patient means delaying someone else’s cancer operation, then it shouldn’t happen.

But what if the person had cancer because they were a heavy drinker or smoker?

Would it be unreasonable to ask the unvaccinated to sign a liabilty waiver that says they agree that their personal choice excludes them from free NHS treatment for Covid?

Free NHS treatment? Lol. We’ve paid thousands in tax over the last couple of years, I presume some of that has gone towards the NHS. And as a family we haven’t used the NHS years.

Silly, stupid idea.

My dad who needs treatment for lung cancer has smoked all his life. Nobody has ever suggested he shouldn't have that.

Where does it end, though? I don’t drive, so I am vastly less likely to be in a RTA than someone who drives every day, technically putting themselves at much higher risk by choice…

@vodkaredbullgirl

Deja vu, had a thread like this before

More like Deja Poo, we have heard this shit before

I’d really like to know what these self righteous saviours ideas are for the “saving” of the NHS was before the pandemic…because it f**ked before 2020.

How do you propose dealing with people who can't afford it? Leave them to die? Send them to jail?

What about people who don't take take the flu shot and need treatment if they catch it? Why shouldn't it apply to them also?

Yes, it would be unreasonable, and it’s the thin end of the wedge.

This is a ridiculous suggestion.
Would you ask for a similar waver from drivers, horse riders, smokers, obese people, drinkers?
No.

I did read a comment on another thread suggesting that those who are unvaccinated should maybe have their own lockdown for their protection - after all they’re often very quick to suggest the same for those who are clinically vulnerable. Would help to ensure the NHS doesn’t get overrun.