Govt plans re unvaccinated feels like a change is afoot

[whenwillthemadnessend]

Anyone noticed the govt and news sources seem to be covering more and more stories regarding the unvaccinated (by choice)
I feel they might be ramping up support for restrictions for unvaccinated people.
It's feel very much like propaganda and warm up the masses.
Anyone agree or noticed this in the last 3/4 days?

Just saw that Tony Blair has now issued a statement condemning the unvaxxed too.

It’s sickening how some politicians are using the anti vax group as an easy target to try and win popularity.

I also saw Matt Hancock writing a scathing article about jab refusers too, obviously as a cynical attempt to try and claw his way back into the public’s favour after his scandal.

It’s really frightening how easily some sections of the population can be persuaded to turn on each other? And for what? So some cynical politicians can have even more power to abuse?

It’s insane. The jab doesn’t prevent the spread of covid and even if it did, omnicron is looking pretty mild anyway.

This thread is exhausting. All over the world, doctors are reporting their ICUs are disproportionately filled with antivaxxers who are in a very bad way.

People (particularly unvaccinated people) can't seem to bear hearing this. So they repeat ad infinitum some bad maths and mangled stats in a sort of spaghetti logic.

It's just word salad obfuscating denial of facts.

@Frozentoes2 It’s frightening

But happened to read the actual treatment protocol for covid and there is not much actually being offered (nothing, really) until you are on oxygen.

I assume you're referring to the UK? Actually other treatments are used including various steroids, blood thinners, and some immunosuppressants. But wrt new Covid specific treatments, America has been using new treatments - the monoclonal antibodies - for months now. (Admittedly the USA was one of the only countries, if not the only one, to have a reasonable supply). But months is not long - and these treatments are still new.

It now appears that the main monoclonal antibodies used in America aren't as effective against omicron. However with the one used in Australia, and very recently approved here in the UK (Sotrovimab) so far the news is good. It seems to continue to work against omicron.

As for the antivirals. They're not using older non Covid specific antivirals (although I believe that Japan was trying one - favipiravir).

The antivirals to be used against Covid, i.e. Pfizer's Paxlovid, are new. Just like the vaccines.

*should say filled with the unvaccinated, not antivaxxers

Hancock and Blair are both despicable characters.

RubyViolet

I can’t calculate the stats, l will fudge the for sure.
l will leave them to someone with a more mathematical brain.
Even at 70/30 % in reference to an earlier post of the ICU beds containing 50/50 vaxxed/ unvaxxed , it illustrates quite clearly that the chance of being hospitalised when unvaccinated are way higher.

I just keep reading the headlines and scratching my head when this isn’t made clear.

Really sorry, I am not trying to pick on you, nor have personal vendetta against you
But hospitalization and ICU stay are not the same thing, are they?
If you go up thread hospitalization was 65% vaccinated / 35% unvaccinated a few weeks ago when 65% of population was double jabbed
I believe here you can figure out the statistics really easily

By no means I am trying to imply that vaccines are not useful and people who want it shouldn't get vaccinated - nor that they are not working

Fairly obviously once the ICU is involved the vaccinated are better off than not vaccinated

@milkyaqua

This thread is exhausting. All over the world, doctors are reporting their ICUs are disproportionately filled with antivaxxers who are in a very bad way.

People (particularly unvaccinated people) can't seem to bear hearing this. So they repeat ad infinitum some bad maths and mangled stats in a sort of spaghetti logic.

It's just word salad obfuscating denial of facts.

The facts in the form of solid data need presenting first.

Just saw that Tony Blair has now issued a statement condemning the unvaxxed too.

I know. I was horrified. If ever a gift to anti vaxxers.... I mean, let's face it. Who wants to be on the same side as Blair

However, a stopped clock is right twice a day, and sometimes an even rarer occurrence will happen such as Tony Blair being right about something (the value of getting a vaccine).

If you go up thread hospitalization was 65% vaccinated / 35% unvaccinated a few weeks ago when 65% of population was double jabbed

Someone posted this earlier, and I think it bears repeating:
ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination

In the example, we invented numbers to make it simple to calculate the death rates. But the same logic applies also in the current COVID-19 pandemic. Comparisons of the absolute numbers, as some headlines do, is making a mistake that’s known in statistics as a ‘base rate fallacy’: it ignores the fact that one group is much larger than the other. It is important to avoid this mistake, especially now, as in more and more countries the number of people who are vaccinated against COVID-19 is much larger than the number of people who are unvaccinated

Frontline staff report that all or nearly all admissions at their hospitals have not been jabbed.

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/dec/22/help-us-to-help-you-doctors-in-england-make-pleas-to-unvaccinated

@Tealightsandd

But happened to read the actual treatment protocol for covid and there is not much actually being offered (nothing, really) until you are on oxygen.

I assume you're referring to the UK? Actually other treatments are used including various steroids, blood thinners, and some immunosuppressants. But wrt new Covid specific treatments, America has been using new treatments - the monoclonal antibodies - for months now. (Admittedly the USA was one of the only countries, if not the only one, to have a reasonable supply). But months is not long - and these treatments are still new.

It now appears that the main monoclonal antibodies used in America aren't as effective against omicron. However with the one used in Australia, and very recently approved here in the UK (Sotrovimab) so far the news is good. It seems to continue to work against omicron.

As for the antivirals. They're not using older non Covid specific antivirals (although I believe that Japan was trying one - favipiravir).

The antivirals to be used against Covid, i.e. Pfizer's Paxlovid, are new. Just like the vaccines.

Yep UK Of course the treatments you mentioned are being used - once you are on oxygen (I don't mean ventilated) Until then -observation is recommended I also agree that the older non covid antivirals are not being used - I just said I would hypothetically take my chances with them as there are other countries using them. Can't comment on Sotrovimab nor Paxlovid as haven't read any papers about them. The 'original' monoclonal antibodies I wouldn't be given due to contraindications

With all these reports and it apparently being such an issue I’m surprised that the government have not prioritised the showcasing of the actual current data to back this up.

@userperuser

It’s ironic because clear transparent facts would be the thing most likely to get people vaccinated (if it really is even necessary now).

Whereas the peer pressuring and bullying approach they’re taking is probably making a lot of people think f*ck you, you’re not pressuring me into this - I don’t live an authoritarian dictatorship (yet).

I feel really sorry for you.

Save your concern for yourself.

Got a better solution to covid ? We have a vaccine. No one “wants” to have it. Our only choice is to work together with the vaccine unless you have another solution ?? I hate it when people moan about a solution but don’t have a better one.

I actually can’t believe how much hate I am reading on this thread.
Considering how many thousands have died from the experimental (still in the trial phase) covid vaccine, it is understandable that many will not want to take it and if they do, they will want to wait. (You can find the total number of deaths and adverse reactions on the official yellow card reporting website - it’s all there but you have to go look for it).
Bodily autonomy is not selfish, especially when it’s being threatened for a virus with over 98% survival rate.
And your response to people who don’t want to play Russian roulette with their lives? Sod them! Exclude them! Let’s hate them??? Very VERY sad, I hope you get some empathy for Christmas.

@Frozentoes2 forgive me, I’m new to mumsnet and that response was meant for a different user but I didn’t know how to reply directly so it was just posted as a new comment and can’t seem to delete it now! Lol

@gallonsoftea If that was aimed at me, I’ve actually had the jab, and I’m not criticising the vaccine itself.

I am however criticising government and media attempts to pressure everyone into having it, by encouraging everyone to turn on the unvaxxed. Ie prominent figures calling them or immoral or stupid, media outlets implying they are now to blame for covid rates etc. The idea of vaccine passes. I thinks it’s despicable and genuinely frightening, and goes against everything that a free society should stand for.

My preferred solution? I suppose just to let everyone who wants to get jabbed, whilst publishing honest statistics so that everyone can make an informed choice. And just to encourage common sense measures until covid hopefully fizzles out (ie wear a mask if you want to, work from home if you can). But obviously that’s just my opinion.

@Ssb85

I actually can’t believe how much hate I am reading on this thread. Considering how many thousands have died from the experimental (still in the trial phase) covid vaccine, it is understandable that many will not want to take it and if they do, they will want to wait. (You can find the total number of deaths and adverse reactions on the official yellow card reporting website - it’s all there but you have to go look for it). Bodily autonomy is not selfish, especially when it’s being threatened for a virus with over 98% survival rate. And your response to people who don’t want to play Russian roulette with their lives? Sod them! Exclude them! Let’s hate them??? Very VERY sad, I hope you get some empathy for Christmas.

I can't believe how much misinformation you've crammed into one post!

@Ssb85 no worries, in that case forgive me too.

@milkyaqua I beg you to go visit the yellow card website yourself. It’s all there in black and white.

It’s actually not ‘an experimental vaccine’ and the deaths are listed but not necessarily attributable to the covid vaccine. Yes, people have died shortly after but who is to say they wouldn’t have anyway and is it a direct result of having been vaccinated? Needs to be much more research happening on this to draw any firm conclusions.