Govt plans re unvaccinated feels like a change is afoot

[whenwillthemadnessend]

Anyone noticed the govt and news sources seem to be covering more and more stories regarding the unvaccinated (by choice)
I feel they might be ramping up support for restrictions for unvaccinated people.
It's feel very much like propaganda and warm up the masses.
Anyone agree or noticed this in the last 3/4 days?

@CaliforniaDrumming

This thread has now deteriorated to the vaccines "not being fit for purpose." I can't say I am surprised.

Neither am I, sadly.

@CaliforniaDrumming

This thread has now deteriorated to the vaccines "not being fit for purpose." I can't say I am surprised.

Better than yesterday when the pro-vaxx were calling for the army to hold down unvaccinated and inject them by force I suppose!

When that was suggested just about everyone was appalled, so don't tar everyone in favour of vaccination with that brush.

The thread is moving quite quickly but I don’t recall reading any comments that say the vaccine isn’t fit for purpose in fact, several people have commented that they are doing their job in terms of reducing hospitalisation and death.

While that is horrible and I am not defending it at all, no one would take that seriously. But people will read this garbage about vaccines "not fit for purpose" and think they don't have to take it because they never smoke or drink, and "don't take as much as a paracetamol".

I find it strange that people will be asked to prove vaccination status and that natural immunity is not acceptable, even though the biggest study in Israel showed that immunity after contracting and recovering from Covid is practically the same as immunity after the 2 jabs.

@ilovesooty

When that was suggested just about everyone was appalled, so don't tar everyone in favour of vaccination with that brush.

I'm not saying it was all of you. It does seem to be popping up quite a bit at the moment though - not surprising when there seems to be more and more acceptance of authoritarian measures. I think it becomes harder then to draw a line.

@userperuser

The thread is moving quite quickly but I don’t recall reading any comments that say the vaccine isn’t fit for purpose in fact, several people have commented that they are doing their job in terms of reducing hospitalisation and death.

It's upthread.

@RubyViolet

Javid: ‘If we look at those that are the most ill in hospital needing the most care and attention, around 9 out of 10 of them are unvaccinated’

• This relates to 154 patients over 5 months between July & Nov 2021 and around 0.14% of Covid patients admitted to hospital

It is true that 91% of patients requiring Extra Corporeal Membrane Oxygenation for Severe Respiratory Failure were unvaccinated - this was 141 people of the 154 patients.

Over the same period, 100,000 patients were admitted to hospital with Covid.

Quoting this most extreme care is hardly representative of the likely outcome for patients.

He is basing his claims on 0.14% of the population admitted to hospital with Covid and ignoring the other 99.86%.

Trying to infer thar 90% of current ICU admissions are unvaccinated based on this older data is dishonest.

CaliforniaDrumming

Must have missed it but still the majority have repeated that the vaccines are doing what’s needed in terms of reducing death and severe illness.

@userperuser

CaliforniaDrumming

Must have missed it but still the majority have repeated that the vaccines are doing what’s needed in terms of reducing death and severe illness.

Oh well, they do more than that- they are a crucial public health measure- but if people are not convinced by now, nothing will convince them.

Here in NSW Australia that was happening until the vax rate reached 95%, staff had to do it which did result in a fair bit of abuse I believe.

@CaliforniaDrumming - I would be much more convinced if I didn't look around at my friends and colleagues and see multiple cases of infection amongst the double/triple vaxxed. Most unvaccinated people I know are very positive about the effects of the vaccine on keeping the elderly and vulnerable out of hospital. They are just not convinced it is doing a particularly good job on stopping transmission - can you honestly say you blame them?

Won’t different people have differing opinions and expectations on what fit for purpose is? For some, a fit for purpose vaccine would be fully sterilizing and prevent you ever catching or transmitting Covid. Others, it would be about preventing serious illness and protecting the vulnerable.

@Awakened22

Won’t different people have differing opinions and expectations on what fit for purpose is? For some, a fit for purpose vaccine would be fully sterilizing and prevent you ever catching or transmitting Covid. Others, it would be about preventing serious illness and protecting the vulnerable.

There are no 100% effective vaccines so they will be waiting a long time for that one.

@CaliforniaDrumming true, but that doesn’t mean people weren’t expecting it to be the answer to everything. The 15million jabs to freedom headlines probably didn’t help manage peoples expectations….

[quote MummyPop00]@RubyViolet

Javid: ‘If we look at those that are the most ill in hospital needing the most care and attention, around 9 out of 10 of them are unvaccinated’

• This relates to 154 patients over 5 months between July & Nov 2021 and around 0.14% of Covid patients admitted to hospital

It is true that 91% of patients requiring Extra Corporeal Membrane Oxygenation for Severe Respiratory Failure were unvaccinated - this was 141 people of the 154 patients.

Over the same period, 100,000 patients were admitted to hospital with Covid.

Quoting this most extreme care is hardly representative of the likely outcome for patients.

He is basing his claims on 0.14% of the population admitted to hospital with Covid and ignoring the other 99.86%.

Trying to infer thar 90% of current ICU admissions are unvaccinated based on this older data is dishonest.[/quote]
If you're in for ecmo then it means that you're about to die and this is a last ditch attempt but also - and this is important - without covid you were decently strong with a meaningful life expectancy. It's hard to manage and very hard on a person's body. The very elderly or vulnerable never made it that far.

So that's 141 of the 154 patients most in need, who they were pulling out all stops to save because they really should have a chance and a good life ahead... Being unvaccinated. Most of those, if vaccinated, would have been strong enough not to ever need it in the first place otherwise. Many of them will have died since, the survival rate is poor.

And that is without even starting on the truly immense number of 100,000 people suffering physically and undoubtedly going through tremendous fear and mental trauma when admitted to hospital for an illness where the risk of hospitalisation is hugely reduced with a free available vaccine.

And that is without even starting on the truly immense number of 100,000 people suffering physically and undoubtedly going through tremendous fear and mental trauma when admitted to hospital for an illness where the risk of hospitalisation is hugely reduced with a free available vaccine.

Did they though? I read yesterday that around half of the current Covid admissions were actually admitted for something else entirely - i.e. broken leg etc so would imagine it was probably the same situation then. It's once again this misuse of data that makes it quite hard to believe a word they say. Why can't they just be honest instead of constantly trying to manipulate people? It makes me sick.

I'm curious about this phobia you mention. Don't you have other vaccinations, routine blood tests, dental treatment, anaesthetic? What happens if you urgently need a procedure that requires a needle?

In my case (needle-phobe) the last vaccine I received was when I was 10. Polio. I was already phobic by then but it got worse as time went on and I refused to have any more jabs as a teen. I have never had a blood test - because needles. Actually never needed one till I became hypothyroid about 6 years ago. I got a finger prick blood test and did my thyroid labs that way. My GP accepted it (although eye-rolled when I said I was needle phobic). I do all my required tests via finger prick tests, which I am OK with.

Never been in hospital. Dentist - for some unknown reason I can tolerate injections in my mouth, probably because I've only had good experiences with them. Phobias are very strange things and probably make no sense to someone who doesn't have one.

my case (needle-phobe) the last vaccine I received was when I was 10. Polio.

Didn't you get it as a sugar lump? I have fond memories of getting my polio vaccine.

Wonder if they could do the Covid vax as a sugar lump? Dentists won't be happy but it would help the needle phobic.

Didn't you get it as a sugar lump? I have fond memories of getting my polio vaccine.

Nope, this was in the time before sugar lumps.

I'd love it if I could get any vaccine via that route!

It was great for kids! They should definitely think about bringing back sugar lump vaccines

@Jolie12345

For those that don’t want the vaccine because long term effects are unknown. Would they also refuse the new Covid treatments that are technically still in trial phase if they end up needing it? I doubt it.

interesting question This is not the reason why I won't have the vaccine But happened to read the actual treatment protocol for covid and there is not much actually being offered (nothing, really) until you are on oxygen. I find that very poor practice. As most of the treatment is effectively not useful that late. So I would actually prefer one of the 'older' not covid specific antivirals early on. Like as soon as positive test. Sorry that might not answer your question but if you specify which particular treatment you had in mind I am happy to answer if I theoretically would want it or not

@Blanketpolicy

...the absolute vast majority of people choosing not to have the vaccine have done so for many and often complex reasons and not because they have been taken in by some conspiracy theories as you seem to think they all have.

ONS Surveys show it is not that complex for the "vast majority". People in the main are simply unsure about the long term health impacts, which is understandable - but if they listen to the official advice from the official experts globally it is clear the side effects are very low risk in comparison. The main problem is they are being misadvised or think they know better than the scientists.

Would be interesting to see how ONS surveys pick the participants for their surveys...

@RubyViolet

This piece today saying that 10% of the population of the population remain unvaccinated. www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/19/sajid-javid-hits-out-at-unvaccinated-for-taking-up-hospital-beds? CMP=fbgu&utmmedium=Social&utmsource=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR0OFqk6Z3DAFGOAQyPop5f-bgKvh30TiBNEQX8FQZY-2lGNDwl5US2w#Echobox=1639940650 This is worse than l thought, the unvaccinated cohort are proportionately taking more beds than l realised.

If you scroll past the catch phrase to actual statistics it still says 70% double vaccinated