Govt plans re unvaccinated feels like a change is afoot

[whenwillthemadnessend]

Anyone noticed the govt and news sources seem to be covering more and more stories regarding the unvaccinated (by choice)
I feel they might be ramping up support for restrictions for unvaccinated people.
It's feel very much like propaganda and warm up the masses.
Anyone agree or noticed this in the last 3/4 days?

Considering the size of the conservative rebellion over Plan B I don't think Boris would risk introducing mandatory vavvinations. It would go against ever right wing principle and it would stick in his throat to rely on Labour again to get it through parliament. It's not going to happen because the optics are bad.

@Chandimum
"This!!!
"Blaming those who choose not to have the jab, for WHATEVER reason, is pathetic! Judgemental, and have the cheek to brand everyone who's unvaxed as 'arrogant'!!
Get a grip a people. Look up the word choice in the dictionary.
The only people they're putting at an increased risk is themselves! Not YOU!!
I'm triple jabbed personally but have an adult child with autism who just doesn't want to get the jab.
I'd be encouraging any child of mine to think twice aswell. This jab is experimental with a long list of adverse side effects which of course aren't publicised! Reports of effects on changes to women's menstrual cycles - that in itself should be a red flag.
Wake up people.
The vaccinated are still spreading AND catching this thing.
The only reason I've had the jab is because I'm in the vulnerable group, plus I have a responsibility to my children to minimise any complications and the need to be hospitalised.
This nonsense really gets my goat! Stop patronising people who make their own informed decisions about their bodies!"

Informed decisions? Like there are microchips in the vaccine?

and for the umpty millionth time its NOT experimental.

At vaccination centres we have lots of people with needle phobias. You can bring a friend, ask to lie down, ask for a volunteer to hold your hand. I have seen people shaking and crying before they are vaccinated. They are fine afterwards.

@Redshell

The change in tone is because vaccination is key to preventing serious illness and death, unnecessary hospital admissions and impacting on a challenged NHS and exhausted NHS staff. That’s the reality, it’s not propaganda.

It is propoganda when it's opinion pieces based on one journalist's prejudices or when we're incessantly given figures out of context or completely wrong (e.g. the lie that 90% of all hospitilisations or ICU admissions are unvaccinated)

I was listening to the radio yesterday and a doctor gave an interesting perspective on it all. He said that if the authorities want people to trust them then they need to earn that trust by behaving in an honest and transparent way. There have been multiple lies and misdirection throughout - for example the latest dodgy projections from SAGE. It's really not that surprising that so many people are finding it difficult to trust our politicians or scientists and when you start throwing coercive measures like vaccine passports and mandates into the mix the disconnect between the government and the people becomes even greater.

[quote godmum56]@Chandimum
"This!!!
"Blaming those who choose not to have the jab, for WHATEVER reason, is pathetic! Judgemental, and have the cheek to brand everyone who's unvaxed as 'arrogant'!!
Get a grip a people. Look up the word choice in the dictionary.
The only people they're putting at an increased risk is themselves! Not YOU!!
I'm triple jabbed personally but have an adult child with autism who just doesn't want to get the jab.
I'd be encouraging any child of mine to think twice aswell. This jab is experimental with a long list of adverse side effects which of course aren't publicised! Reports of effects on changes to women's menstrual cycles - that in itself should be a red flag.
Wake up people.
The vaccinated are still spreading AND catching this thing.
The only reason I've had the jab is because I'm in the vulnerable group, plus I have a responsibility to my children to minimise any complications and the need to be hospitalised.
This nonsense really gets my goat! Stop patronising people who make their own informed decisions about their bodies!"

Informed decisions? Like there are microchips in the vaccine?

and for the umpty millionth time its NOT experimental.[/quote]
Please stop with the microchips in vaccines hardly anyone thinks this in fact I’m convinced it’s more bs propaganda initiated by the media to discredit anyone not wanting the vaccine.

Good

Scientists are not in agreement. Some feel natural immunity is just as good if not better.
I had covid just over a year ago, I still have antibodies. It was a very mild cold. I'd rather get covid again if my immunity wanes.
Why would I get a vaccine where we don't know how many we need or what the long term affects are? When it might actually be betterto just have had covid?Especially when I have antibodies, no more worried about covid than the common cold. As should the majority of people considering for most it has been a mild illness from the very beginning. Some people fully vaccinated are getting very ill, some people unvaccinated are, that is just the nature of bugs. Low risk group but I've been wiped out with flu before, but as is life and I wouldn't want the country to shut down, children to miss education, clubs etc, for human rights restricted because I don't fancy getting the flu. I'm aware the world doesn't revolve around me.

Widespread health anxiety/ hysteria is what it is. We've got to move on with our lives, covid isn't going anywhere, we have to live with it.

The vaccine doesn't stop you getting it or spreading it. It apparently makes it more mild for the majority but considering it has always been mild for the majority we don't actually know that to be true.

They wanted me vaccinated, I'm a single parent, they could only offer appointments where id have to bring my children. They said children weren't allowed at appointments. There was no options to facilitate single parents who had children present. So I didn't get vaccinated despite wanting to be. So I'll be punished for being unvaccinated aswell as being single aswell as having children, what do you want me to actually do. I have four children no support network and actively want to be bloody vaccinated

This piece today saying that 10% of the population of the population remain unvaccinated.
www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/19/sajid-javid-hits-out-at-unvaccinated-for-taking-up-hospital-beds?
CMP=fbgu&utmmedium=Social&utmsource=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR0OFqk6Z3DAFGOAQyPop5f-bgKvh30TiBNEQX8FQZY-2lGNDwl5US2w#Echobox=1639940650
This is worse than l thought, the unvaccinated cohort are proportionately taking more beds than l realised.

The amount of vitriol being thrown at "the unvaccinated" is terrifying! I know at least three people who have had serious side effects with the vaccine, two needing hospitalisation, who were then told to just blindly go and get boosters without any form of clinical assessment of whether it would actually be in their best interests.
It would seem that it is thought of as their duty to sacrifice their own health and quality of life for the greater good, or be punished for choosing not to.
We have freedom of choice in this country at the moment, and it frightens me to hear so many people wishing we didn't. Why can't people see the similarities between what is happening here as to what went on in Russia just before the rise in communism and fascism in Germany? Erode the small freedoms and people are less likely to fight for the bigger ones!

@milkyaqua @RubyViolet I did actually state (several times) that the lower percentage of unvaccinated patients in icu does not mean that unvaccinated people are less likely to end up there. The reason that actual percentages in icu are being posted is to counteract the false statements such as ‘90% of people/majority of people in icu are unvaccinated. 48% is a lot less than 90%

I'm curious about this phobia you mention. Don't you have other vaccinations, routine blood tests, dental treatment, anaesthetic? What happens if you urgently need a procedure that requires a needle?

It’s just factual reporting that the majority of serious hospitalisations are in unvaccinated. My friend is a nurse and they are finding it very difficult that the pressure is coming from this population, mainly through personal choice.

Personally, I feel that there hasn’t been enough done to address the conspiracy theories and false information iro vaccine safety, nor the fact that vaccines are a societal wide protection and need everyone to play their part, rather than a personal choice. The restrictions and impacts are society wide currently?

Sorry but I feel quite strongly about this.

It is not factual reporting. It is incorrect and has been corrected many times. The media have a lot to answer for. So much for fact checking!

It’s really hypocritical to come on these threads complaining about people who are apparently misinformed when you can’t accept evidence presented.

@AdmiralCain

I'm severely Pro choice (With a hint of anti vax) You get one jab - you still catch and pass on Covid You get jab two - you still catch and pass on Covid You get jab three - you still catch and pass on Covid The product is faulty - Lets blame the people who aren't jabbed.

👏 well said. This vaccine is clearly not fit for purpose but hey the government who dont practise what they preach say have a booster and the masses start queuing.

"Please stop with the microchips in vaccines hardly anyone thinks this in fact I’m convinced it’s more bs propaganda initiated by the media to discredit anyone not wanting the vaccine."

Yes this wouldn't surprise me TBH.

Statements such as ‘Hospitals are x% full of the unvaxxed’ can very much be treated as propaganda on the basis of the stats available in the public domain at the moment.

All we have recently are vague soundbites. So publish the actual (up to date) figures to justify some of the blanket statements being made currently & preferably without unnecessary delay otherwise those statements remain open to question.

Hospitals are well, well down on last Winter’s peak as things stand.

There definitely has been an increase in any and every public figure commenting on the unvaccinated. They even got the Archbishop of Canterbury to tell us it's a moral duty! I wouldn't be surprised if the Queen hints at it in her Christmas message.

If Omicron is as mild as some are saying hopefully it will soon be a non-issue.

@MummyPop00

Statements such as ‘Hospitals are x% full of the unvaxxed’ can very much be treated as propaganda on the basis of the stats available in the public domain at the moment.

All we have recently are vague soundbites. So publish the actual (up to date) figures to justify some of the blanket statements being made currently & preferably without unnecessary delay otherwise those statements remain open to question.

Hospitals are well, well down on last Winter’s peak as things stand.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/19/sajid-javid-hits-out-at-unvaccinated-for-taking-up-hospital-beds?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR0OFqk6Z3DAFGOAQyPop_5f-bgKv_h30TiBNEQX_8FQZY-2lGNDwl5US2w#Echobox=1639940650

ICNARC:

This thread has now deteriorated to the vaccines "not being fit for purpose." I can't say I am surprised.

Rate of admissions, not actual numbers in icu atm. No one is arguing that unvaccinated are not at higher risk, when compared like for like, otherwise what would be the point of the vaccine? We’re arguing against the false statements irt actual numbers in icu such as those made by SJ. They’ve been corrected several times but people keep repeating them.

@RubyViolet - The figures he used went back to July when the situation was radically different. This is exactly what we're all talking about when we say they carefully select and manipulate the data to fit whichever angle they are trying to promote. At the moment they want everyone to turn on unvaccinated people so that they are left with no other option but to have the jab. They seem quite happy to use questionable and out-of-date figures to do this which is why I find it impossible to trust them.