Govt plans re unvaccinated feels like a change is afoot

[whenwillthemadnessend]

Anyone noticed the govt and news sources seem to be covering more and more stories regarding the unvaccinated (by choice)
I feel they might be ramping up support for restrictions for unvaccinated people.
It's feel very much like propaganda and warm up the masses.
Anyone agree or noticed this in the last 3/4 days?

[quote Headingnorthwoste]@bumbleymummy but they are- the majority in ICU beds are unvaccinated. If everyone gets vaccinated NHS will cope and we won’t have restrictions.

The public are losing patience with the unvaccinated now.[/quote]
No the public are not losing patience. It’s only here on mumsnet that people are. Haven’t heard any of these views against the unvaccinated out in the real world, and I work in a very big industry dealing with many people everyday.

[quote Headingnorthwoste]@bumbleymummy but they are- the majority in ICU beds are unvaccinated. If everyone gets vaccinated NHS will cope and we won’t have restrictions.

The public are losing patience with the unvaccinated now.[/quote]
According to the latest ICNARC report, 48% of patients in Critical care in November were unvaccinated - down from 75% in May. So no, not the majority.

www.icnarc.org/DataServices/Attachments/Download/e7be23e7-695f-ec11-9139-00505601089b

(Disclaimer again - this does not mean that unvaccinated people are less likely to end up in icu, just that they are not currently ‘the majority’ of patients.)

@OverTheRubicon also in ICNARC report (table 16) 19.1% of people with 2 doses had severe comorbidities. It also shows the characteristics of patients unvaccinated, with one dose and with two doses.

@Flowerlane

I work in a huge hospitality venue and all my colleagues reported fed up with selfish people Turning up. No masks. Amazon bought exemption lanyards and no vacc

Large groups of under 30s all exempt????? Hmmmm odd that.

They are very vocal about it and everyone hates them.

No the public are not losing patience. It’s only here on mumsnet that people are. Haven’t heard any of these views against the unvaccinated out in the real world,

No neither have I. People on MN think they speak for the majority and they just don't.

[quote whenwillthemadnessend]@Flowerlane

I work in a huge hospitality venue and all my colleagues reported fed up with selfish people Turning up. No masks. Amazon bought exemption lanyards and no vacc

Large groups of under 30s all exempt????? Hmmmm odd that.

They are very vocal about it and everyone hates them. [/quote]
I agree that people should be wearing masks. Totally. But that hasn’t got anything to do with being unvaccinated. The poster I quoted said the public were losing patience with the unvaccinated not the unmasked.

@bumbleymummy 48% of ALL ICU patients unvaxxed. But a clear majority of those in ICU for Covid are unvaxxed. As you well know.

The ICNARC report is for covid critical care beds @EmmaOvary

Funnily enough people in France also keep repeating the blatant misinformation on how "the unvaccinated" are the overwhelming majority in hospitals / critical care.

It's not true here either.

Rather shockingly it was put out there by a high up immunology scientist giving advice to the Senate! Then the press picked it up and ran with it.

If you watch the video of the scientist saying it it's quite revealing as she pauses uncomfortably before she says the (untrue) 80% statistic.

www.liberation.fr/checknews/covid-19-est-il-vrai-que-80-des-hospitalisations-concernent-des-non-vaccines-comme-le-dit-karine-lacombe-20211203_QPLLDHSJOFFH7GXEIPP6BYGMP4/

Also weirdly even though it has been widely put out there that it's a falsehood people still want to scapegoat "the unvaccinated" rather than examine the hospital funding crisis , the hospital staffing crisis and how massive sums are being used on vaccination with unproven products which are still being researched to the detriment of other treatment protocols.

@bumbleymummy and that's an average across the whole of the UK. Many individual hospitals, notably in London, have 80-90% unvaxxed among their Covid patients. It is, however, positive that the overall numbers have gone down from what they were in May - probably down to people getting their second jabs and possibly early effect of boosters.

@KurtWildesChristmasNamechange

No the public are not losing patience. It’s only here on mumsnet that people are. Haven’t heard any of these views against the unvaccinated out in the real world,

No neither have I. People on MN think they speak for the majority and they just don't.

Mumsnet are well known for creating a baying middle class mob unable to grasp any views outside the PTA cul de sac. Usually not reflective of the real world - hence the astonishment at what goes on in the real world (look at Brexit). Express a contrary position and mass meltdown/bullying ensues -usually calling people stupid, the relevant ism. Quite frankly it’s on the verge of a cult at times.

Yes, I’m aware it’s an average. That means that some hospitals will have more than 48% unvaccinated and some will have less.

No the public are not losing patience. It’s only here on mumsnet that people are. Haven’t heard any of these views against the unvaccinated out in the real world, and I work in a very big industry dealing with many people everyday

I am very pro-vaccine, and never heard any discussion IRL (although, for full disclosure, have participated in some on here!). IRL, people don't know if other people vaccinated or not, unless that person decides to tell them.

@Flowerlane Agree! No one I know in real life is discussing the non vaccinated and feels it’s free choice, it’s only on here and with so many threads over the last few days.

Mumsnet are well known for creating a baying middle class mob unable to grasp any views outside the PTA cul de sac. Usually not reflective of the real world - hence the astonishment at what goes on in the real world (look at Brexit). Express a contrary position and mass meltdown/bullying ensues -usually calling people stupid, the relevant ism. Quite frankly it’s on the verge of a cult at times.

Funny that, it seems the Archbishop of Canterbury has joined the baying middle classes on MN, saying it's a moral issue and vaccines show love for your neighbour.

A hateful comment from the Archbishop. Pretty sure Jesus would have been out in the streets singing with the ‘unclean’.

And the vaccine is far more effective at protecting yourself than your neighbour.

Funny that, it seems the Archbishop of Canterbury has joined the baying middle classes on MN, saying it's a moral issue and vaccines show love for your neighbour.

Oh well, if the Archbishop said it... Best we all do as we're told then, whatever your reservations are guys, you're obviously wrong.

Mumsnet are well known for creating a baying middle class mob unable to grasp any views outside the PTA cul de sac. Usually not reflective of the real world - hence the astonishment at what goes on in the real world (look at Brexit). Express a contrary position and mass meltdown/bullying ensues -usually calling people stupid, the relevant ism. Quite frankly it’s on the verge of a cult at times.

This is so very true. Anyone whose opinions go against the MN general consensus is 'a bit dim.' 🙄

Mumsnet are well known for creating a baying middle class mob unable to grasp any views outside the PTA cul de sac. Usually not reflective of the real world - hence the astonishment at what goes on in the real world (look at Brexit). Express a contrary position and mass meltdown/bullying ensues -usually calling people stupid, the relevant ism. Quite frankly it’s on the verge of a cult at times.

Oh, I know! I'm clearly not welcome to sit at the generally clique-y MN table, and I'm ok with that.

And as for the Archbishop of Canterbury.. who rattled his cage?

Och that comment from the Archbishop is too much imo

And I’m all for vaccination - although agree issue on choice is complex

I am an atheist now, but I was raised a Hindu, and many Hindu, Sikh , Buddhist and Jain religious leaders have made similar statements as the Archbishop.

[quote Headingnorthwoste]@bumbleymummy but they are- the majority in ICU beds are unvaccinated. If everyone gets vaccinated NHS will cope and we won’t have restrictions.

The public are losing patience with the unvaccinated now.[/quote]
Just to clarify, they're counting people who've had one jab in those numbers.

How do we know those people aren't there because they've had an adverse reaction to the shot?

[quote bumbleymummy]@OverTheRubicon

Do you want to include double vaccinated people in those restrictions given the latest report from Imperial?

“Depending on the estimates used for vaccine effectiveness against symptomatic infection from the Delta variant, this translates into vaccine effectiveness estimates against symptomatic Omicron infection of between 0% and 20% after two doses, and between 55% and 80% after a booster dose. Similar estimates were obtained using genotype data, albeit with greater uncertainty.”

www.imperial.ac.uk/news/232698/omicron-largely-evades-immunity-from-past/[/quote]
More nonsense from Neil Ferguson and Imperial College.

It strikes me that 'vaccine passports' are just the latest in the 'If we take this sensible step, just like 'other countries', then we'll get the pandemic under control' line of arguments we've seen on MN over the past 19 months.

First it was 'proper lockdowns'.
Then it was NZ style full border closures.
Then 'mask mandates'.
Then vaccinating kids.

Now it's ostracising the 'selfish unvaccinated idiots'.

What's next, I wonder?

[quote whenwillthemadnessend]@Flowerlane

I work in a huge hospitality venue and all my colleagues reported fed up with selfish people Turning up. No masks. Amazon bought exemption lanyards and no vacc

Large groups of under 30s all exempt????? Hmmmm odd that.

They are very vocal about it and everyone hates them. [/quote]
I’m quite young, granted not that young, but I am often told that I look early 30’s…

I have bought myself and started wearing a flower lanyard. I did wear a mask for a while, but I felt it constricted my breathing. It didn’t of course, my blood oxygen was fine, but inside the mask I’d have anxiety attacks.

Wearing the mask was fairly traumatic anyway. Something bad happened to me in uni. I have never been able to talk about it to anyone or report what happened, because I felt partially responsible (drunk) and the other persons involved remain friends of my family, but having that experience caused me to suffer ongoing anxiety and panic attacks over the years, which are largely controlled with sertraline.

However, inside the masks, the panic attacks came back and I spent many an hour phoning NHS direct and sitting in A&E, convinced I was having a heart attack or that I was dying, or that perhaps I had covid that wasn’t showing up on a test and that required oxygen.

Last August I quite legally self exempted myself from masks. But, I have had very rude people comment and two even demand to see my exemption.

It’s none of your business. Am I supposed to recall an incident that was so traumatic (that I at one point kept a tub of 200 painkillers under my bed, all opened and ready to go) in the middle of a damn garden centre?

I turned around and said “PTSD” and do you know what the plonker said?…. ‘Ohhh, stress is it?’

Whilst not everyone wearing a green lanyard will have a genuine reason, many will. They will look young and fit and healthy and not be able to wear a mask, for reasons some of your hateful friends could never imagine.

But I’m sure looking down your nose at people and feeling hate towards them, makes you all the better person right?

Again, perhaps we should all learn to be tolerant and understanding of each other. I refer back to my previous example of the cruise ship that just returned to Miami, 48 people testing positive for covid. Vaccines, masks and even LFT do not stop covid spreading. Even if we had 100% of people vaccinated and masked up, it’s still going to spread. Covid is going nowhere.

I do understand the arguments being put forward that the vaccine reduces how infectious a person will be with covid and how long they’ll have it for.

BUT even if every single person was jabbed the virus would still spread. And there are so many other factors that make a person more likely to be ill with it for a long time - eg smoking, obesity, unhealthy lifestyle - why aren’t these people being scapegoated for taking up hospital beds?

Does anyone have any stats for how many have died of flu this year versus covid? Because there are so many nasty respiratory illnesses going round at this time, some of them must be a bigger threat to the clinically vulnerable than covid.

Also the risk of the jab is so different for different ages. If you are in your 70s taking it is a no brainer. If you’re 25 and covid isn’t a threat to you I can see why you’d think why should I put myself at risk with multiple untested vaccines? The young have already sacrificed so much for the well-being of the old.