Page 20 | Govt plans re unvaccinated feels like a change is afoot

whenwillthemadnessend · 2021-12-21T11:51:31+00:00

Anyone noticed the govt and news sources seem to be covering more and more stories regarding the unvaccinated (by choice) I feel they might be ramping up support for restrictions for unvaccinated people. It's feel very much like propaganda and warm up the masses. Anyone agree or noticed this in the last 3/4 days?

XenoBitch · 21/12/2021 21:13

[quote Pipesofpeas]@XenoBitch Completely agree with all you’ve written and I’m becoming more concerned/frightened almost about some people’s views about this. It’s true what a previous poster has said about the seed being planted in regards to unvaccinated, it’s very clear they’re being made scapegoats now.[/quote]
I am scared too.
I wont lie, it is making me want to get my affairs in order.

Franticbutterfly · 21/12/2021 21:14

@Alarmset

I don't think "the masses" will need warming up to the idea of restrictions for the voluntarily unvaccinated, if it means widespread restrictions for everyone can be avoided.

I hate how easily our freedoms were removed in the first wave, I have strong misgivings about "papers" of any sort, but I'm afraid restrictions for the unvaccinated now seems the lesser of two evils.

This is the definition of cognitive dissonance.

Frozentoes2 · 21/12/2021 21:16

@Tealightsandd

That isn’t what I asked, I asked if you trusted actual statistics? Of course you have no obligation to answer and I have no right to demand one!

But I genuinely don’t understand the hysteria when the death rate is so low!!?

godmum56 · 21/12/2021 21:17

@XenoBitch

Yup, the person i know dealt with fighters including biters but ALWAYS and ONLY with written informed consent and trained staff. In extreme cases they would clear a room and put crash mats on the floor. In some cases it would happen at more than one pregnancy. The additional complication of course was that there is the baby to consider....VERY specialised restraint training

@godmum56
That sounds awful, and distressing for everyone concerned.

While nobody wanted it to be necessary, by what the person told me (and i know them very well) it couldn't have been done at all without trust from the Mum. So not desireable? absolutely but awful and distressing? No I don't think so, firstly because the staff involved went to great lengths to make it as quick and easy as it could be and no force or coercion was used witout need or before the needle was going to be inserted. Right up to that point the person could say no and leave even though they had signed to consent.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 21/12/2021 21:17

Good Lord, how on earth is it logical to not treat the unvaccinated with new drugs that treat the actual illness if the goal is to prevent hospitalisations? That makes even less sense and just proces the point that the desire to punish the unvaccinated over-rides everything.

How about prioritising production of these new wonder drugs? Or do they not make as much money for those with a vested interest? Good clinical practise used to include using appropriate treatments for symptoms and proven infections, but apparently no longer. We really have gone through the flipping looking glass 🙄

Tealightsandd · 21/12/2021 21:18

In fact covid hospitalisations are not especially bad at present. There's such a febrile atmosphere at present though that you'd be forgiven for thinking otherwise.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fears-nhs-could-be-overwhelmed-by-london-omicron-surge-50358rl26

Covid hospital admissions have doubled in three weeks in London, leaving ministers worried about a surge of Omicron variant infections.

Boris Johnson said that hospital admissions were “rising quite steeply in London” after a 37 per cent rise in the past week that has alarmed government and NHS leaders.

godmum56 · 21/12/2021 21:20

[quote Frozentoes2]@Tealightsandd

That isn’t what I asked, I asked if you trusted actual statistics? Of course you have no obligation to answer and I have no right to demand one!

But I genuinely don’t understand the hysteria when the death rate is so low!!?[/quote]
because we know that the death rate lags

MaxNormal · 21/12/2021 21:20

Covid hospital admissions have doubled in three weeks in London

Doubled from what starting point? That is rather a key piece of information.

CaliforniaDrumming · 21/12/2021 21:23

@Tealightsandd

In fact covid hospitalisations are not especially bad at present. There's such a febrile atmosphere at present though that you'd be forgiven for thinking otherwise.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fears-nhs-could-be-overwhelmed-by-london-omicron-surge-50358rl26

Covid hospital admissions have doubled in three weeks in London, leaving ministers worried about a surge of Omicron variant infections.

Boris Johnson said that hospital admissions were “rising quite steeply in London” after a 37 per cent rise in the past week that has alarmed government and NHS leaders.

It's like we are in two different worlds, isn't it? One where doctors and NHS chiefs say one thing, another where MN posters say everything's fine. If Omicron turns out to be milder than expected, lovely! I am glad I spent most of the year saving for private health care though. I am likely to need it.

DoleWhipFloat · 21/12/2021 21:24

Vaccine passports don’t work and will never work. The vaccinated can catch and spread covid.

Look at the vaccine uptake for vaccine part 1; part 2 and now the booster. With each vaccine, the take-up is lower. Eventually more people will ignore the vaccine than take-it. We all have our limitations… at that point, you become unvaxxed.

If the majority of the public is vaccinated, then statistically vulnerable people are more likely to catch covid from a vaccinated person.

Where is the consideration for natural immunity, which could be superior to the vaccines?

The way we think about the unvaccinated is completely flawed. I’m jabbed, but I am not stupid. I can see that the current vitriol towards the unjabbed is simply a form of coercion. It also goes against the Human Rights Act.

Unvaccinated people don’t phase me. I’m as protected as I can be. I’ll likely still catch covid. It make no difference who it’s from.

Tealightsandd · 21/12/2021 21:27

But I genuinely don’t understand the hysteria when the death rate is so low!!?

The UK death rate (and sheer numbers of dead). One of the highest in the world. Low... Erm...

Um, the point of the vaccines is to reduce the risk of serious illness/death so you’re kind of contradicting yourself a bit here.

You said it. Reduce. Vaccines help a lot (including risking transmission) - but they're not 100% effective particularly for some of the vulnerable.

How about prioritising production of these new wonder drugs?

Prevention is always better than cure, but they are prioritising their manufacture (alongside vaccines). It's not a quick process for either drug (treatment or vaccine). There's a global shortage of both. Which is why much of the world is still waiting to be vaccinated.

In the future they'll be wider availability. A light at the end of a long tunnel.

DoleWhipFloat · 21/12/2021 21:27

@MistressoftheDarkSide

Good Lord, how on earth is it logical to not treat the unvaccinated with new drugs that treat the actual illness if the goal is to prevent hospitalisations? That makes even less sense and just proces the point that the desire to punish the unvaccinated over-rides everything.

How about prioritising production of these new wonder drugs? Or do they not make as much money for those with a vested interest? Good clinical practise used to include using appropriate treatments for symptoms and proven infections, but apparently no longer. We really have gone through the flipping looking glass 🙄

Thank you. Logic finally.

XenoBitch · 21/12/2021 21:29

@godmum56
I was not a mum etc.. I was an MH patient and the being restrained and injected against my will has had a massive effect on me.
It makes me feel sick when I see people suggesting it as a solution.

Tealightsandd · 21/12/2021 21:30

Vaccine passports don’t work and will never work

For years France has been one of the most vaccine refusing countries in the world. Covid vaccine bookings shot up after Macron introduced vaccine passes.

For even better results, look East. East Asia, and some of the Arab countries.

The vaccinated can catch and spread covid.

Yes but not as much as the unvaccinated. It's about reducing risks. Just as seat belts don't prevent every RTA death or serious injury but they do reduce them.

DoleWhipFloat · 21/12/2021 21:31

@Tealightsandd

But I genuinely don’t understand the hysteria when the death rate is so low!!?

The UK death rate (and sheer numbers of dead). One of the highest in the world. Low... Erm...

Um, the point of the vaccines is to reduce the risk of serious illness/death so you’re kind of contradicting yourself a bit here.

You said it. Reduce. Vaccines help a lot (including risking transmission) - but they're not 100% effective particularly for some of the vulnerable.

How about prioritising production of these new wonder drugs?

Prevention is always better than cure, but they are prioritising their manufacture (alongside vaccines). It's not a quick process for either drug (treatment or vaccine). There's a global shortage of both. Which is why much of the world is still waiting to be vaccinated.

In the future they'll be wider availability. A light at the end of a long tunnel.

If the vaccines stopped transmission, or even substantially reduced transmission, then the vaccinated would be largely covid free. This isn’t the case. I have a couple of friends (husband and wife) who chose not to be vaccinated and they are still yet to have covid.

The vaccinated can get and spread covid. It doesn’t matter if it cuts transmission slightly, the vaccinated are equally at risk from other vaccinated people. Especially when you factor in that there are many more vaccinated people in the UK.

userperuser · 21/12/2021 21:33

[quote XenoBitch]@godmum56
I was not a mum etc.. I was an MH patient and the being restrained and injected against my will has had a massive effect on me.
It makes me feel sick when I see people suggesting it as a solution.[/quote]
Even though I’ve never had your experience the idea of restraining people to vaccinate them is now the worst thing I’ve ever read on MN ever, what an absolute low point humanity has reached.

bumbleymummy · 21/12/2021 21:33

90% of this will be for the unvaccinated.

And there it is again. No matter how many times it’s been debunked.

DoleWhipFloat · 21/12/2021 21:34

@Tealightsandd

Vaccine passports don’t work and will never work

For years France has been one of the most vaccine refusing countries in the world. Covid vaccine bookings shot up after Macron introduced vaccine passes.

For even better results, look East. East Asia, and some of the Arab countries.

The vaccinated can catch and spread covid.

Yes but not as much as the unvaccinated. It's about reducing risks. Just as seat belts don't prevent every RTA death or serious injury but they do reduce them.

OK, Vaccine passports do not work to reduce transmission. They do work as a coercion tactic to force the unvaccinated’s hand. In that respect, yes, they have been successful. However, I don’t believe any country will look back on that in time, as a source of pride.

Again, when you factor the number of vaccinated people vs unvaccinated, you are just as likely to catch covid from either.

DoleWhipFloat · 21/12/2021 21:35

@userperuser

I couldn’t agree more. History will not look back on this kindly.

Pipesofpeas · 21/12/2021 21:36

@DoleWhipFloat Completely being used as a means of coercion, it’s frightening how much it’s influencing some people’s hatred towards the unvaccinated, it makes no sense that they’re suddenly to blame for everything.
Why is there no discussions about natural immunity and it’s effectiveness?

@XenoBitch Affairs in order in what respect?

DoleWhipFloat · 21/12/2021 21:38

[quote Pipesofpeas]@DoleWhipFloat Completely being used as a means of coercion, it’s frightening how much it’s influencing some people’s hatred towards the unvaccinated, it makes no sense that they’re suddenly to blame for everything.
Why is there no discussions about natural immunity and it’s effectiveness?

@XenoBitch Affairs in order in what respect?[/quote]
I know. I chose to have my vaccines. I would rather not have had them, but at least I made the choice.

I am not sure I want four?

I think everyone will reach their limit.

Yellowshirt · 21/12/2021 21:38

I am not an anti vaxxer but I have chosen not to have the vaccine at the moment. My abusive EX wife can explain the reason I'm not getting it. I'm not a monster or selfish. I've just been to hell and back.

BlaBlaSmthSmth · 21/12/2021 21:39

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Tealightsandd · 21/12/2021 21:40

[quote DoleWhipFloat]@userperuser

I couldn’t agree more. History will not look back on this kindly.[/quote]
Agreed. History will not look kindly on the UK's eugenics lite pandemic policy. The Othering of the elderly and vulnerable, the enormous death count - one of the world's highest rates and numbers in the world. And a suffering economy to boot! (Because we all know that health is wealth and wealth is health - and the countries that took sensible proactive infection control mitigation measures all now have healthier economies).

Frozentoes2 · 21/12/2021 21:40

@Tealightsandd

The covid death rate SINCE omicron became the dominant variant is low isn’t it?

I know there is a lag, but omicron has been raging through the population for a while now and not causing lots of deaths.

I genuinely can’t see the need for panic this time (unlike previous surges).

Covid hospital cases may be rising but it’s December, don’t respiratory viruses overwhelm the nhs every single winter?