@Dollymantra
I think the upshot of this thread is that restrictions for the unvaccinated by choice are very popular.
So it’s very likely they will come in soon.
Do you think that's a good thing then? To go with what's most popular? Rather than what is scientific or ethical or based on solid data?
I would be careful what you wish for. I live in a country that has sanitary passes (soon to be renamed as "vaccine passes"). They are getting stricter and stricter. At first it was 2 vaccines or a negative test. Now it's 3 vaccines for everyone 18 and older and there is soon to be a vote on negative tests no longer being allowed (expected to go through). Currently you need a pass to go to a restaurant, bar, outside café, library, cinema, etc. The government is seriously considering extending that to all workplaces and all public transport (expected to go through). There is also already talk of more boosters.
Now you might say that you are cool with this as the vaccines are safe and effective and they are our golden ticket to getting back to normality. Personally I don't consider needing a Pfizer or Moderna pass (for that is what they are) to go about my daily business in Europe "getting normality back".
And we don't actually know for sure how safe and or effective the vaccines are outside of the clinical trials that have been done. Those clinical trials did not include endless boosters. They also didn't include recovered people. The data on this in terms of safety and efficacy is being collected, as we speak, in real time. So this mass vaccination programme is ongoing research. We are seeing the information change over time as data emerges. And that is fine, I'm not criticizing that, I'm just pointing it out. The reality is that there was a pandemic going on and we needed some tools to deal with it and we didn't have time to do long term studies in the wider population. So the vaccines were deployed under emergency status by medical agencies and wider safety and effectiveness data is being collected and monitored in real time. Like I said, I don't have a problem with that - there isn't any other way to do it.
But I think we are on very slippery ethical ground if we start taking strong arm tactics with people who would prefer not to take part in ongoing research.
I can get my head around a covid pass which gives you the option to go out for dinner by doing a test but I can't be anything other than very concerned about where things are heading politically and ethically when the only option if you want to work or use public transport is to have multiple vaccines. The next thing where I live in France will be vaccine passes for access to education IMO for all ages. Pfizer is talking about 3 primary doses in children (lower dose than adult dose per injection). They don't know about boosters but suggest they will be required.
If one is going to use or support strong arm tactics one better have the data to indicate and to justify them. And it better be good.
It is not medically ethical to assume that things are going to be fine. Look at the issue with pericarditis and myocarditis - this wasn't picked up in the clinical trials and we are just learning about it now. Do we know what the biological mechanism is which triggers this? Do we know who is at risk? Do we know if other organs can be affected by a similar mechanism?
What about menstrual disturbances? Same thing - not picked up in the clinical trials. Same thing with blood clotting. Same with activation of latent herpes zoster.
Of course vaccines have their place and they seem to be doing a very good job so far of reducing the risk of severe disease. And that is great. But there is more work to do. We need better understanding of both vaccine induced protection and natural immunity, we need treatment protocols, we need to not put all our eggs in one basket. Especially when that basket has so many unknowns.
Let us also not forget that a lot of unvaccinated people have had covid, a lot cannot be vaccinated and an unknown number are not willing to take additional vaccines as they have experienced serious side effects with the primary doses (or with other vaccines and or medications). Remember that the cardiac events appear (according to government data) to be worse on administration of 2nd doses than 1st doses (i.e. there appears to be a culmative effect or some sort of unknown synergy). And the effect of 3rd and potentially 4th doses is being researched right now as and when members of the public receive those doses.
Unvaccinated people are just part of a complex picture. I get that it is human nature to want a scapegoat and to want a simple, straightforward, black and white solution. History tells us that we generally get ourselves in trouble when we want authoritative black and white solutions to complex situations.
And I haven't even mentioned right wing under-funding of the UK health system yet. Or how the right is politicizing the coivd public health crisis in countries like France, Germany and Austria because the centrists and leftists are implementing more and more authoritarian policies without the data to even come close to justifying them.