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Original poster

Govt plans re unvaccinated feels like a change is afoot

913 replies

whenwillthemadnessend · 21/12/2021 11:51

Anyone noticed the govt and news sources seem to be covering more and more stories regarding the unvaccinated (by choice)
I feel they might be ramping up support for restrictions for unvaccinated people.
It's feel very much like propaganda and warm up the masses.
Anyone agree or noticed this in the last 3/4 days?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
godmum56 · 21/12/2021 20:22

@XenoBitch

To all those with a true needle phobia, what about a program where you sign up to take the vaccine discuss it with a HCP that you consent then we employ army/bouncers to restrain whilst it done. Yes it wouldn't be pleasant but would that not be a viable option for a lot of people. I faint at the site of the needle in my arm I always say don't talk to me just do it whilst I look the other way, once the nurse talked I looked over let's just says she never spoke to me again until it's out

No, just no. What a terrible idea. Some people have a needle phobia because your idea has actually happened to them!

This is actually not such a terrible idea if its with consent. I know a recently retired clinician in maternity who has done this more than once for Mums who needed blood draws and who also knew that they could not have it done without restraint. The staff involved have special training and signed consent is always obtained. They have done a similar thing for folk who faint. They are put on a bed instead of in a chair and consent is obtained to continue with the blood drawer if they faint...again done with appropriate trained medical supervision.
Frostythesnowperson · 21/12/2021 20:26

Are we actually seriously talking about having army/bouncers to restrain people whilst they are injected?!! Is this real?

Potatodrivers · 21/12/2021 20:27

The madness continues 😂

XenoBitch · 21/12/2021 20:29

Not read the whole thread.

No, I have not noticed a ramping up of restrictions for unvaccinated people or any proposals to do it.

What I have noticed is the dehumanisation of 'the unvaccinated', and the past few days on MN has really brought this to light.

Believe it or not, every single person that has not been jabbed is a real human being, with friends and family, hobbies and interests, likes and dislikes, a past and a future... and ultimately, a reason they have not had the vaccine.
If it is health anxiety, then help ease it. If it is misinformation, show them the facts. If it is due to a reaction to a previous jab, show some understanding. If they have fallen down a conspiracy rabbit hole... well, help pull them out of it.
Just be aware that there might be deep seated psychological reasons that someone is not vaccinated, and you calling them selfish, telling them they are prolonging the pandemic, accusing them of killing cancer patients etc is not going to help one jot. What are you going to do to help people get the vaccine in a way that effective and helpful?

Not everyone is so open about the effect your words are having, but you are causing serious harm to people with your hatred, dehumanisation and general attitude to your fellow human beings.
A vaccine injection does not make you a moral or nice person.

nojudgementhere · 21/12/2021 20:31

@Xenobitch - Great post - I agree with every word.

Grapewrath · 21/12/2021 20:32

You are not wrong OP and judging by this thread the machine is well and truly working

PrincessPaws · 21/12/2021 20:33

@Incognito22333

The question also boils down to 1) do we keep the unvaxxed at home/away from others or 2) do we keep the vulnerable/CEV at home/away from others for a very long time. I do not understand anyone who would choose 2 over 1 when 2 have less choice in the matter. The usual arguments about NHS underfunded, people bringing obesity/smoking on themselves leading to 2) etc won’t fly. Having a vaccine is quick and straightforward. Plus even the best funded healthcare systems in the world are struggling.
Number 1 without a doubt. Although as a PP said, a lot of the anti vaxxers/vaccine hesitant would be perfectly happy for the CEV to lock themselves away so they (the unvaxxed) can get on with life as normal (a view some on this thread have expressed throughout the pandemic) yet are stamping their feet at someone suggesting that perhaps it should be the unvaxxed that are restricted instead.

In my view it is sensible to restrict those that have a choice and have decided to 'make their own risk assessment' without any consideration of public health

MaxNormal · 21/12/2021 20:33

@XenoBitch that is so beautifully put.

What I am seeing is the belief that its okay to dehumanise other people because there is a "good enough" reason.

But everyone in the past who discriminated, who dehumanised another group, felt their reason was good enough too. Everyone is on the side of right in their own mind.

It's far safer to assume that no reason is good enough.

XenoBitch · 21/12/2021 20:36

@godmum56 I can get on board with fainters who have already given informed consent . It would probably be easier for everyone all round!
I wish I was a fainter. I am fighter. Not safe for me to get the jab or anyone to attempt to give it to me.

OverTheRubicon · 21/12/2021 20:38

@XenoBitch Believe it or not, every single person that has not been jabbed is a real human being, with friends and family, hobbies and interests, likes and dislikes, a past and a future... and ultimately, a reason they have not had the vaccine.

And so was everyone who died a real human being. And the many who are vulnerable and at increased risk. And the doctors and nurses missing Christmas to care for the extra patients in hospital, 90% of whom are unvaccinated. And people who've missed out for months of over a year of important surgeries and treatments due to covid-related overwhelm. And the children harmed by domestic violence and the others left adrift by CAMHS going from bad to a complete car crash.

Even with full vaccinations in this country, we'd still have some issues with covid, but nothing like this. I'm tired of locking my vulnerable child up, so that unvaccinated people can go to nightclubs. Bring on the vaccine passports.

PrincessPaws · 21/12/2021 20:38

Believe it or not, every single person that has not been jabbed is a real human being, with friends and family, hobbies and interests, likes and dislikes, a past and a future...

As are the elderly and vulnerable, but some people seem quite happy to write them off with a 'oh well, they'd die anyway' even though in many instances that is nonsense

MummyPop00 · 21/12/2021 20:41

‘England hospital units may close as staff revolt over jab mandate, says NHS leader’

Oh, the irony.

amp.theguardian.com/society/2021/dec/20/england-hospital-units-may-close-as-staff-revolt-over-jab-mandate-says-nhs-leader

coldwarenigma · 21/12/2021 20:42

There seems to be quite a few mners nearly wetting themselves in excitement at the prospect of forcing others to take a jab they don't want for whatever reason..
This attitude actually makes me more sympathetic towards those not having it.
The idea of using force is abhorrent.

ChardonnaysPetDragon · 21/12/2021 20:43

Believe it or not, every single person that has not been jabbed is a real human being, with friends and family, hobbies and interests, likes and dislikes, a past and a future...

As is everybody working in hospitality who are worrying about their jobs now.

godmum56 · 21/12/2021 20:45

[quote XenoBitch]@godmum56 I can get on board with fainters who have already given informed consent . It would probably be easier for everyone all round!
I wish I was a fainter. I am fighter. Not safe for me to get the jab or anyone to attempt to give it to me.[/quote]
Yup, the person i know dealt with fighters including biters but ALWAYS and ONLY with written informed consent and trained staff. In extreme cases they would clear a room and put crash mats on the floor. In some cases it would happen at more than one pregnancy. The additional complication of course was that there is the baby to consider....VERY specialised restraint training.

XenoBitch · 21/12/2021 20:46

@PrincessPaws

Believe it or not, every single person that has not been jabbed is a real human being, with friends and family, hobbies and interests, likes and dislikes, a past and a future...

As are the elderly and vulnerable, but some people seem quite happy to write them off with a 'oh well, they'd die anyway' even though in many instances that is nonsense

Of course, but I did not allude to that in my post at all. We can all hurt, albeit in different ways and for different reasons.
OverTheRubicon · 21/12/2021 20:48

[quote XenoBitch]@godmum56 I can get on board with fainters who have already given informed consent . It would probably be easier for everyone all round!
I wish I was a fainter. I am fighter. Not safe for me to get the jab or anyone to attempt to give it to me.[/quote]
At first, I had a lot of sympathy for those who find vaccination hard, knowing that often it comes from systemic issues, or phobias. I'm done, now. If you've chosen not to go with other support, from hypnotherapy to CBT to mild sedation, that's your call. But it's not your call, during a pandemic, to then be able to enter enclosed spaces with the public, from shops to schools to restaurants. It's ridiculous that people are missing out on seeing family, and dying without medical treatment, because hospitals are swamped with unvaccinated people. It's ridiculous and sad for those unvaccinated people and their families also.

XenoBitch · 21/12/2021 20:48

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

Believe it or not, every single person that has not been jabbed is a real human being, with friends and family, hobbies and interests, likes and dislikes, a past and a future...

As is everybody working in hospitality who are worrying about their jobs now.

Hospitality is suffering right now as people are locking themselves down. The industry needs more help, and I hope it comes.
XenoBitch · 21/12/2021 20:51

Yup, the person i know dealt with fighters including biters but ALWAYS and ONLY with written informed consent and trained staff. In extreme cases they would clear a room and put crash mats on the floor. In some cases it would happen at more than one pregnancy. The additional complication of course was that there is the baby to consider....VERY specialised restraint training

@godmum56
That sounds awful, and distressing for everyone concerned.

HailAdrian · 21/12/2021 20:52

@KurtWildesChristmasNamechange

Not really any different to trying to swab a child tho is it and we all think that is acceptable at the minute.

Speak for yourself when you say 'all' think this that is acceptable. I don't think it's acceptable at all, and I know I'm not the only one.

Neither do I, my autistic child can't give consent and I'm extremely uncomfortable with it.
ChardonnaysPetDragon · 21/12/2021 20:52

It's coming and it will cost the country billions. That's my and other vaccinated people taxes that will pay for someones right to do research on FB and refuse to vaccinate. And it might not be enough.

You have quite the brass neck talking about help for hospitality while carrying on with your anti tax agenda. Shame on you.

MaxNormal · 21/12/2021 20:54

ridiculous that people are missing out on seeing family, and dying without medical treatment, because hospitals are swamped with unvaccinated people

This isn't actually true. However the idea has been seeded and, as we can clearly see, it's a very successful way to whip up anger and hatred against the unvaccinated.

In fact covid hospitalisations are not especially bad at present. There's such a febrile atmosphere at present though that you'd be forgiven for thinking otherwise.

Here is a useful link: fullfact.org/health/dr-hilary-lorraine-kelly-90-percent/

PrincessPaws · 21/12/2021 20:54

@XenoBitch no you didn't, but tbh I am sick of people banging on about anti vaxxers being 'real people' while conveniently forgetting that many of the same 'real people' would happily lock up anyone who is vulnerable so they can carry on only thinking of themselves

XenoBitch · 21/12/2021 20:55

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

It's coming and it will cost the country billions. That's my and other vaccinated people taxes that will pay for someones right to do research on FB and refuse to vaccinate. And it might not be enough.

You have quite the brass neck talking about help for hospitality while carrying on with your anti tax agenda. Shame on you.

What anti-vax agenda?

I am just very concerned about the othering and dehumanisation of people who are not vaccinated.
It is getting over the top and nasty now.

Frozentoes2 · 21/12/2021 20:56

To those who are saying “but what about the clinically vulnerable?” - do you not think other illnesses now pose a greater threat to them than covid?

Given that they can be jabbed for covid and that omicron causes mild issues, surely they are more at risk from a nasty bout of the flu or a rotavirus type of bug?

Do you propose we all have to lockdown for these illnesses too, or that new jabs should be created for EVERY illness out there that could pose a threat to the clinically vulnerable?

I just don’t get how there is still such hysteria about covid when the actual death stats (which are inflated) are so low!!

I have a lot of sympathy for the clinically vulnerable and would much rather valuable medical resources went on curing their problems than obsessing over covid which seems to now be only as dangerous as the common cold.