Do unvaccinated people not see they are part of the problem?

[User135644]

I accept it's people's right whether they get jabbed or not, entirely up to them. However, the more people stubbornly refuse a vaccine then the worse it'll be for all of us. The hospitals will be more stretched and we'll have more restrictions, lockdowns or circuit breakers. People who won't get the vaccine are often the most anti-lockdown or restrictions, yet are part of the problem as to why we'll keep getting them.

Where exactly do they think we'd be without vaccines? We wouldn't have had a relatively normal 6 months or so with everything open, that's for sure.

@jewel1968 almost in tears? And what about all the people who have been in floods of tears at the thought of more restrictions coming?

NC because I am so angry with ‘D’H who refused vaccine, now has Covid 5days before Xmas do our sons snd my parent’s will not now be coming for Xmas.
I have told him we roll NOT be having Christmas lunch he have a bloody pot noodle!
He is not actually ill other than a sore throat and I have tested negative LFTs twice a day since he told me on Friday evening. I
F*cking selfish bastard.

Sorry for the typos - when my H does not catch Covid and ruin Christmas, I am articulate with immaculate spelling, punctuation and grammar.

And we are not sharing a bedroom till he has tested negative three days in a row 😉

@HeyDugeesCakeBadge

Why is it the unvaccinated's problem? People who are tripple jabbed can still catch, transmit and still have to isolate if they do get it? How is it the fault of the unvaccinated? Other countries that have forced the unvaccinated into lockdowns or said they cannot enter premises haven't stopped the spread then how can it be anything but a virus doing what viruses do?

Because at this stage the ones in hospital with covid are something like 90% unvaccinated.

I am triple jabbed and prob vaccine.

The 3 people I know who are unvaccinated:

1 is frightened of the vaccine
1 believes in alternative medicine
1 feels she will be ok if she got covid - she's very sporty.

I'm not sure how each of these people would be persuaded.

@bumbleymummy

Oh hang on - so now you’ve changed it to ‘only on this thread’.

One moment you’re saying you ‘stand by everything you’ve posted’, and you’re asking for evidence as to why posters think you are against vaccination. Yet angry when someone questions a past post about ‘vaccine damaged children’.

And if you are claiming it is ‘out of context’ - how about all the snippets of scientific papers you are quoting out of context??

You’ve had many posts deleted yourself for your type of behaviour.

There is a global consensus of medical thought on Covid. The WHO have designated Omicron a variant of concern. The immediate threat is from Covid - not obesity. Governments worldwide are responding to the advice given by WHO.

Your continual pushing of an alternative agenda is not supported by health professionals - and it is harmful when hospitals are potentially faced with a critical situation.

And it’s concerning that you have a few - potentially vulnerable - cheerleaders here.

The unvaccinated who end up in ICU wil be subject to many invasive procedures and drugs with long term side effects. Do they decline those due to not enough knowledge? Looking at the amount of unvaccinated in ICU it appears not.

The unvaccinated I know have given the following reasons.

1, it's too new and will mess up my body, periods etc.

2 I'm too young and healthy it won't affect me.

3, scared of needles.

Funnily enough, when the vax became needed to travel abroad some of those listed above changed their mind and got the vax

@DDUW

I'm unvaccinated. I'm not coming in contact with anybody so I don't see that I am part of the problem.

So in the last 2 years, you've not done into contact with a single person?

@HangingOutWithTheSandman

I’m not vaccinated but I don’t really mix much with anyone apart from my partner and kids. I see friends for dog walks. I shop online and haven’t gone to any pubs or restaurants since before all this began. We had tickets booked for various things but haven’t gone. If I have to go anywhere I try to choose quieter times and wear a mask and keep my distance from everyone. I do LFTs regularly.

I think I’m much less of a risk that the people I know who are vaccinated but going out to crowded places.

Do your kids go to nursery or school? Because that's your risk.

@MummyPop00

I wish people would stop spouting ‘far right’ when they categorise anti-vaxxers as a whole. It’s very lazy & also especially ironic if/when they also advocate mandatory vax or lockdowns of the unvaxxed.

This isn’t a left/right issue it’s liberty/pro choice vs authoritarianism/Fascism.

If that's your concern I take it you've been moving heaven and earth to do what you can to fight the progress of the Nationality and Borders Bill, and the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill, which are the two greatest threats to our liberty at the moment.

My understanding is that if you work in the NHS and somebody in your household has covid, and you have to isolate.

I do not work in the NHS, however three of my children have had covid across the past 3 months, if I were an NHS worker this would have resulted in me having to take 6 weeks off work - despite the fact that I am vaccinated.

I wonder how many people are currently out of work from the NHS due to having to isolating? I think this is part of the reason why the NHS is struggling so much currently.

Personally I know who is unvaccinated, is on vaccinated due to the fact that they feel fit strong and able to fight off covid.

I personally believe people should have the right to choose whether to be vaccinated and the blame game is not helpful whatsoever. Really until the world is vaccinated, there are always going to be many mutations of this virus.

@Glitterblue

She wouldn't be my friend after that behaviour. Utterly selfish and dangerous.

She is the type that needs to pay for her own icu bed. 😡

@Kokeshi123

With children making up a major part of the unvaxxed population, I find it slightly baffling that you think their parents would be clamouring for harsher restrictions for them.

Of course nobody is talking about restrictions on unvaccinated children. Unvaccinated children and teens have such a low risk of hospitalizations even if they get COVID unvaxxed, that such rules would make zero sense and be incredibly divisive. I am talking mainly about adults who are refusing the vax.

Oh, sorry for not understanding the rules in your strange lttle dystopian future! If you look at other countries that have introduced 'harsher restrictions' for the unvaxxed (i.e. Austria etc.) then you will see that they also apply to children. Not sure why you're so convinced we'd be any different? Parents should therefore be very careful what they wish for. They might be perfectly happy to take repeated boosters to 'keep themselves safe' and keep their vaccine passports up to date. I'm not convinced that's the future many would choose for their chldren though.

@nojudgementhere - my kids have a yearly nasel flu spray at school, and no, I have no idea what's in it. If that was recorded somewhere and we had to show it to travel overseas, I wouldn't be overly emotional about it.

Countries that have extended restrictions to children offer those age groups the vaccines. My current worry is we only offer 12-15 year olds 1 jab, where as to access swimming pools and restaurants across large amounts of Europe require all those over 12 to be double jabbed, its going to make holiday booking hard.

www.gov.uk/government/news/nhs-covid-pass-for-12-15-year-olds-for-international-travel
2nd jabs on offer now after 12 weeks.

[quote MargosKaftan]@nojudgementhere - my kids have a yearly nasel flu spray at school, and no, I have no idea what's in it. If that was recorded somewhere and we had to show it to travel overseas, I wouldn't be overly emotional about it.

Countries that have extended restrictions to children offer those age groups the vaccines. My current worry is we only offer 12-15 year olds 1 jab, where as to access swimming pools and restaurants across large amounts of Europe require all those over 12 to be double jabbed, its going to make holiday booking hard. [/quote]
With respect we aren't talking about a yearly nasal flu spray that has huge amounts of long-term data, so I'm not really sure how your comment is relevant? We are talking about possible multiple injections of a MRNA vaccine that has been shown to in very rare cases cause cardiac damage in young people. The JCVI originally decided the vaccine was not in children's best interests and then would only approve a single dose to mitigate against possible side-effects. Thsi is why I feel a lot of parents would have concerns and would hate for their children to have to be jabbed multiple times to retain normal everyday privileges.

Well, considering anti vaxxers are now block booking NHS appointments so that no one turns up and fewer people can book, I don’t think anyone can defend them now:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/12/19/anti-vaxxers-block-book-appointments-stop-people-getting-life/

That’s criminal. You don’t get to tell other people what to do.

I don’t eat pork, dh has roughly half a pig in my Xmas shop. I don’t feel the need to impose my beliefs onto him.

@bumbleymummy
Although national average of critical care beds taken by unvaccinated maybe 48%, but it's not the case in every hospital, especially where there are more unvaccinated population.

Michael Bartley, a critical care matron at King’s, estimated that “80 to 90%” in the hospital’s critical care beds were unvaccinated.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/19/london-hospital-staff-speak-out-were-not-here-to-judge-but-please-get-your-covid-vaccines

[quote ChloeDecker]Well, considering anti vaxxers are now block booking NHS appointments so that no one turns up and fewer people can book, I don’t think anyone can defend them now:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/12/19/anti-vaxxers-block-book-appointments-stop-people-getting-life/[/quote]
Oh for goodness sake - this is a tiny proportion of extreme anti-vaxxers! I really hope you're not trying to suggest all unvaccinated people would advocate this kind of behaviour? It's clearly very wrong. This is a prime example of the press trying to fuel hatred and divide - please don't let them manipulate you quite so easily.

Do most of the people who won't be vaxxed, not work? It seems to me that they are the ones who can afford to stay indoors and trawl the internet for advice. Most of us have to work to survive. We have the vaccine to protect ourselves

Oh for goodness sake - this is a tiny proportion of extreme anti-vaxxers! I really hope you're not trying to suggest all unvaccinated people would advocate this kind of behaviour? It's clearly very wrong. This is a prime example of the press trying to fuel hatred and divide - please don't let them manipulate you quite so easily.

No I’m not, especially as a lot of unvaccinated people cannot have the vaccine for medical reasons but your immediate reaction to this is very interesting.

In my experience they are not very bright and have often had a very poor standard of education.

They do Facebook and YouTube "research" and they genuinely believe that's what it is - research.

The concept of qualified, experienced individuals doing actual research for years is just alien to them. It's just not part of their world.

I find it's this coupled with a very strong sense of self worth that is the dangerous combination- they do this "research" and them ram it down other peoples throats by posting all over social media about it, as they genuinely believe that others are incapable of doing this "research" themselves.

And of course they tend to group together so just echo these ideas back at each other.

And no, I don't think they do see themselves as part of the problem. I'm not sure of their reasoning for this other than an inability to understand statistics.

In addition to these people there are of course some who are genuinely fearful of the vaccine and I guess I can't really condemn them for that.

These are the only two groups of people I can think of.

I would be open to hearing a reasoned anti vax argument from someone with relevant experience/qualifications but have yet to come across anyone who can offer this.

@ChloeDecker

Oh for goodness sake - this is a tiny proportion of extreme anti-vaxxers! I really hope you're not trying to suggest all unvaccinated people would advocate this kind of behaviour? It's clearly very wrong. This is a prime example of the press trying to fuel hatred and divide - please don't let them manipulate you quite so easily.

No I’m not, especially as a lot of unvaccinated people cannot have the vaccine for medical reasons but your immediate reaction to this is very interesting.

Why? Please do explain? I just find articles like this horribly divisive and no better than propoganda. Having read it again I noticed that there's not a single scrap of evidence - instead it says they 'suspect' anti-vaxxers might be block-booking appointments. Wouldn't it be nice for them to 'know' this information before plastering it all over the papers? Sorry if I sound a bit oversensitve. There were at least five new threads created on Mumsnet yesterday that were purely designed to bash the unvaccinated, so I'm probably feeling a little under attack!