Do unvaccinated people not see they are part of the problem?

[User135644]

I accept it's people's right whether they get jabbed or not, entirely up to them. However, the more people stubbornly refuse a vaccine then the worse it'll be for all of us. The hospitals will be more stretched and we'll have more restrictions, lockdowns or circuit breakers. People who won't get the vaccine are often the most anti-lockdown or restrictions, yet are part of the problem as to why we'll keep getting them.

Where exactly do they think we'd be without vaccines? We wouldn't have had a relatively normal 6 months or so with everything open, that's for sure.

@Inthelivingyears

I believe that I caught Covid the same time as you. Your mentioning tinnitus has made me realise that I don't think I've noticed mine in the past three or four months - but it was very irritating. Breathlessness still an issue from time to time, inhaler from the doctor was a big help.

I'm triple vaccinated, the first AZ was tough for 2 or 3 days (Paracetamol after the jab, before bed and first thing the next day has proven good advice since), didn't notice the second at all, the Moderna booster was another 2 or 3 days of fluey symptoms.

For the sake of your child and yourself, I would urge you to get jabbed - ideally sorting out some additional support around the jab date.

Vaccine passports are totally OK also.

If you choose to be unvaccinated. Fine. Your choice. You are putting pressure on healthcare, you are part of the problem. You are entitled not to be abused, but let live your life. However the least you can do, if unvaccinated, is not moan like a child if you can’t get into a nightclub!

@Honeyhorse

I’m not vaccinated because I’ve got a needle phobia but I’m getting increasingly upset at being criticised in the same breath as the anti vaxxers, I’m not an anti vaxxer. But all these people calling for those who don’t get the vaccine to be not treated by the NHS, it really frightens and upsets me.

I think it’s very easy to tell the difference between someone with needle phobia vs someone who is an anti-vaxxed. And I’m pretty sure that the vast majority of posts related to this subject are directed towards the latter.

I have total sympathy for those with needle phobia. I hate needles myself, but have had to get used to them as I now have to have an injection every 10 weeks for the rest of my life. That was difficult in the beginning with just a hate of needles, nowhere near a phobia.

I really hope that the nasal spray vaccine proves successful I. Testing and becomes available soon, as that will make a difference to a number of people.

@CherryBlossomAutumn

Vaccine passports are totally OK also.

If you choose to be unvaccinated. Fine. Your choice. You are putting pressure on healthcare, you are part of the problem. You are entitled not to be abused, but let live your life. However the least you can do, if unvaccinated, is not moan like a child if you can’t get into a nightclub!

Why do you want to exempt double vaccinated people from testing when they are only 0-20% protected against symptomatic infection from omicron (Imperial college London report)?

I'm unvaccinated. I had Covid so I have antibodies. I'm as 'protected' as anyone else.

My question would be -

Why would me getting vaccinated protect you, when your own two vaccines and a booster clearly haven't?

I also might add - EVERYONE who is harping on about the unvaxxed are having a rather super social life - concerts, gigs, xmas markets, footie matches FLYING ABROAD. You name it.

Meanwhile, I go to Tesco once a week masked up. That's it.

The problem is the vaccinated who think that they're now immune and have just gone back to their previous way of living. The other big problem is everyone flying abroad and flying back. THE VIRUS MOVES.

Please someone tell me how I'm the problem, when I have antibodies and I barely leave my house??!!

@Toastmost I don’t go to mass gatherings, I’m not well enough to. I go to the supermarket as I need food and to the park/woods to walk my dog. I wear a mask to the supermarket and live in a place where masks have been mandatory since they came into effect?

Am I still a selfish person?

@TheFrendo

Do the overweight not see that they are part of the problem?

Do those with co-morbidities not see that they are part of the problem?

Pointless deflections - try harder.

[quote bumbleymummy]@EmpressCixi I’m not talking about ‘letting people die to achieve herd immunity’ I’m saying that immunity after infection (~70% in SA) is holding up well against omicron so it really isn’t ‘the worst’.[/quote]
Sorry that’s bullshit. SA has 43% fully vaccinated. Nowhere near ~70% with “natural immunity”. And Omnicron is currently causing a much bigger crisis than in the U.K.

“The Covid infection rate has surged in South Africa since the second week of November, with 62,021 new cases reported between Nov. 29 and Dec. 5, a 111% increase compared to the previous week, according to the WHO’s latest weekly report published Tuesday.”

And it’s vaccination providing immunity, not nature...
“In the last two weeks, no fewer than 80% of admissions were below the age of 50 years. This is in keeping with the age profile of admissions in all public and private hospitals in Tshwane and throughout the Gauteng Province in the last two weeks ... Nineteen (19) percent were children aged 0-9 years and the highest number of admissions was in the age group 30-39 years, making up 28 percent of the total,” the report noted.

It added that the increase in younger admissions to the hospital could be a result of lower vaccination rates in this age group, stating, “it may be that this is a vaccination effect as 57% of people over the age of 50 have been vaccinated in the province compared to 34% in the 18-to-49-year group.” The majority of the Covid ward patients were unvaccinated.”
www.cnbc.com/2021/12/09/south-africa-omicron-crisis-cases-hospitalizations-and-vaccinations.html

They aren’t part of the problem. The difference is: obestiy isn’t a highly contagious disease that’s spreading like wildfire.

@Pickledlipstick

Overweight people too? They have a bigger risk of complications. How irresponsible. They have had ample time now to lose weight. Also the people with unhealthy lifestyles which contribute to poor immune systems, less likely to be able to fight off the virus and end up on hospital. Selfish.

Overweight people and those with unhealthy lifestyles who get themselves vaccinated are very likely to significantly reduce their chances of getting seriously ill and needing hospitalisation, and thus reduce the current strain on hospital beds, which is going to put the rest of us into lockdown. They are not selfish. Those who have heard the evidence regarding the benefits of vaccination and still refuse to get the vaccine, despite the impact it will have on the rest of us to go into lockdown, they are selfish.

"If the vaccine prevented you from catching, carrying or spreading covid I might re-assess my decision - but it doesn't."

This is misinformation. We know that the vaccine reduces the chance of getting it. If you don't have it, you can't pass it on. There is also an impact on viral load. Why do people continue to spew this nonsense???

@NuffSaidSam

For the most part, no. They think that vaccines don't work or the consequences of the vaccines will be worse than consequences of Covid. They're generally not big fans of facts or science or evidence as far as I can tell.

Oh my goodness this has made me laugh. Next time someone is being ignorant I’m just going to raise an eyebrow and say ‘she’s not a big fan of the fact, as it were’. Brilliant.

@CherryBlossomAutumn

Many countries in Europe have these restrictions and have seen huge surges in cases. They have recently but they have kept Covid under far better control than England, which has had more deaths and hospitalizations than any other European country in the last 3-4 months. So restrictions did and do work. However I think we have to reframe it - we all have to change a bit that’s all. Masks on public transport isn’t a restriction, it’s just bloody common sense! We have to do this for the next couple of years.

Ventilation of buildings is also what we have to do, forever really. That’s not restrictions. It’s again, common sense management.

We cannot vaccinate our way of a pandemic. We have to manage it too, long term, consistently.

Incorrect. See attached.

@CoastalWave

I also might add - EVERYONE who is harping on about the unvaxxed are having a rather super social life - concerts, gigs, xmas markets, footie matches FLYING ABROAD. You name it.

EVERYONE? In all caps? I'm not. I certainly haven't had a super social life over the last couple of years. Neither have plenty of people I know, also vaccinated like me. We've made responsible choices throughout the pandemic.

Shouting at people and saying they're 'harping on' doesn't make you sound clever, it makes you sound bizarre.

I actually thought people mentioning SA for natural immunity was a joke!

You really cannot be serious… SA with omicron is a bastion of good practice for natural immunity?!!!

@Alexandra2001

...and is if to prove my point, this gets posted.

Why are booster shots necessary if the immunity produced from the existing crop of vaccines is stable, durable, and sufficiently broad to recognise variants?

Booster shots of the same vaccine are very often found to be necessary to confer life long immunity when a vaccine is first launched.

It’s not uncommon or a failure for a vaccine to not be a one shot does it all:
Tetanus
Hepatitis
Chicken pox
HPV

@EmpressCixi
^? Do you have children? I presume not because no parent could think this.^

I do and they’ve been vaccinated according to the schedule.

The spike protein from Covid vaccine stays in your body longer than 6 months and with more doses added it adds up. I’m sorry, but I think people are way too trusting BBC. I’m not ready to have a booster every 3-6 months against a new variant and I have all rights to do so.

I’m very scared of all the people pro vaccine passports and mandatory vaccination.

Please see my previous link to ICNARC data irt critical care beds - 48% are unvaccinated.

Don't you find it scary though, those minority of unvaccinated people fill up half of the critical care bed, in the country with very high vaccination rate?

@TheHungriestMama

Unvaccinated here, so is DH I believe in Covid, I don't believe I'm too young or fit to not get ill as we've had it and we were all very unwell for 3/4 weeks at home.

DD is vaccinated with all other childhood vaccines that have been used for years and studied longitudinally. ALL vaccines have risks (may be minimal but for the people who get those side effects it won't feel minimal) it's whether you are willing to weigh up the risks vs the risks of not having the vaccine. I am not willing to take the risk of covid vaccines until there has been a longer timescale, it's only been available to give since Dec 2020, that is one year. I always wanted to see a couple years worth of evidence and then get it

I also don't believe in strong arming people into getting it, especially care workers who are paid so little and had no choice other than to get it or be jobless - a great response to those 'invaluable front line workers' who are doing a thankless task day in day out for shocking pay.

I believe in science, and medicine, but don't believe in following either blindly as both haven't always been used to benefit people/have been grossly wrong in the past. I also don't particularly believe the current government have the best interests of the people at heart so it adds to the conflict I feel.

Exactly this.

It's about weighing up the risks for yourself and being happy with the decision you make. Why should people in their 20s who are at minimal risk from being seriously ill with covid be forced into making decisions about their body for the greater good.

People will say to protect others, to save the NHS bla bla bla. But it's not the public's job to "save" anything - it needs to be properly funded for a start. People can talk about community spirit till the cows come home, but at the end of the day it's a personal choice. The risk of becoming seriously ill or dying from covid is minuscule so why bother with the vaccine.

Some people would prefer some longer term data about the effects of it before they put the substance into their body and that's fine.

Not all of those that have refused the covid vaccine are anti-vaxxers. I haven't had the covid vaccine, I've had all others offered to me even those not normally taken such as flu and whooping cough while pregnant. My daughter has had all of her childhood immunisations.

Are those who normally refuse flu vaccine anti-vaxxers? No - they weigh up the risks and recognise that they're unlikely to be seriously ill with the flu and as sick skip it. An elderly person on the other hand - much more likely to benefit from the vaccine and as such take it.

I have a feeling a lot of people have taken the vaccine due to pressure - not because they want to, but feel obliged to and as such are not happy with their choice and are pressuring others into being in the same boat.

I’m vaccinated and believe in personal choice but only to a certain extent. I was due to have another brain surgery for a third tumour by April this year. Due to the spread of covid, all elective surgery was cancelled. Got a date for next week. Cancelled as they need the ICU beds for those who are badly affected by covid. In the past year my tumour is nearly double the size and I now need a large plate and will need further chemo / radiotherapy. They are worried about this - I’ve had 2 intense courses already to the brain. I really don’t want a third but I have no choice because covid. So yes, I do think the majority of unvaccinated are fucking selfish. They are putting my life at risk.

I am vaccinated and see the benefits of vaccines generally. HOWEVER, I am bemused by people blindly following science like scientists and doctors are all altruistic do gooders who only want to get to the truth. Where do people think the money to do all the research comes from?! ALL scientific research is funded by organisations and pharma companies - all of whom have vested interested in the hypotheses and research they select to fund. Even the universities doing the modeling are getting funded by alumni and sponsors with an interest that isn't entirely without agenda - not at all different to the politicians who are lobbied to present certain view points on everything from tobacco to gun control and abortions, and everything in between. Not all scientific recommendations are unbiased - it is based on the hypotheses people decide to research and prove/disprove. It's why there is so little research and understanding of women's health issues, as an example.

And the very fact the CEO of Pfizer is talking about everyone getting annual jabs for years to come (where he absolutely has a vested interested in profits), should show how selective and biased a lot of the vaccine science for Covid is. Where the pharma companies and health charities can't even agree on what is immoral or not. How can anyone not be at least a little suspicious of WHY we are being expected to be pumped full of vaccines every year. And how does he already know that we'll need them every year if it's still on-going research??

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59488848

And what we should absolutely be questioning, is why after 2 years of everyone from WHO to scientist Daszak denying the lab leak theory, Dr. Alina Chan, a specialist in gene therapy/cell re-engineering at MIT/Harvard just presented to our Science & Tech Select Committee that actually lab leak is the only explanation. And that Covid is an engineered virus. Daszak denied it - he was a scientist. Alina Chan says Daszak is wrong. Which scientist to believe? However, the media isn't really talking about this, and none of the scientific community have reacted either.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/12/15/wuhan-lab-leak-now-likely-origin-covid-mps-told/

@EmmaOvary

"If the vaccine prevented you from catching, carrying or spreading covid I might re-assess my decision - but it doesn't."

This is misinformation. We know that the vaccine reduces the chance of getting it. If you don't have it, you can't pass it on. There is also an impact on viral load. Why do people continue to spew this nonsense???

Some (many?) people have wrongly interpreted the ‘not 100% effective’ message as meaning ‘doesn’t prevent you getting it’. It’s so frustrating. It amazes me how ignorant people can be. Genuinely amazes me.

@DDUW

I'm unvaccinated. I'm not coming in contact with anybody so I don't see that I am part of the problem.

Sorry, but I call bullshit on this. How on earth can you not have come into contact with anyone since March 2020?

@EmmaOvary

"If the vaccine prevented you from catching, carrying or spreading covid I might re-assess my decision - but it doesn't."

This is misinformation. We know that the vaccine reduces the chance of getting it. If you don't have it, you can't pass it on. There is also an impact on viral load. Why do people continue to spew this nonsense???

It makes them feel better about not getting the vaccine. Two years and people are still spewing this nonsense. Also "I never leave my house and see no one and do nothing". Many of us WFH and led quiet lives without going to mass events or gigs. You are not unique in this.

The answer is simple and essentially refuse to let them into work etc unless they are jabbed along with restrictions on all shops/hospitality (tough tits they can get home delivery of the essentials) if they need it.