Massive turn in opinion…

[Normando91]

Is it just me or has opinion on a possible lockdown or circuit breaker in the coming days or week completely changed in the past 24 hours?

I hadn’t looked at Sky News in the last 2 days as it all just seemed speculation and bleak but having looked tonight it looks inevitable that we’re going to face some kind of stricter restrictions, most likely after Christmas, but possibly before.

Everyone I’ve spoke to has gone from, no we will not go into lockdown (or further restrictions) to yeah, it’s coming.

Who would have thought we’d be back here a year later from lasts Christmases shit show.

canary1

It seems this is driven by the unvaccinated who are making up the majority of admissions
They should be restricted, if they choose to not have the jab. The rest of society should suffer because of their choices

I think you will find it is the vaccinated who are the ones spreading it as they think, just because they are double jabbed they are immune.
If you wanted restrictions on the unvaccinated when you were making out they were the ones flooding the hospitals does that mean you want the vaccinated to be subject to restrictions to stop the spread.

For those posters concerned about the economic costs of lockdown, the economic costs of doing nothing will be much worse and the government know this. Furlough will be reintroduced for hospitality and other businesses that can’t operate

I don’t see how the economic costs could get worse for us and for a lot of people.
40 years of work to get us in a position that we could retire and first having to pay for Dh’s cancer treatment because we were in the wrong postcode.
(If only he had lost the use of his legs in the US and then it would have saved us loads of money. He had American health insurance)

Then just as he was recovering from that we lose everything because of the lockdowns.

Dh I doubt will work again. The first lockdown affected his MH so badly he said he would rather die than go through shielding again.
We are all in the hospitality industry so trying to put food on the table and pay the bills has been a joint family effort
We are now renting and I doubt I will ever be able to afford the type of house I had before

Tell me financially how much worse it could get.

I am in my 60s and doing days here and their working for someone else.

Tell me how I can get out of this hole.

Out of 4 adults in our household only Dd qualified for the furlough scheme.

A lot of people didn’t qualify and were left to fend for themselves

2. It takes time to lose weight. The virus won't wait.

It's been nearly two years! Are you really telling me that someone couldn't significantly improve their health in nearly two years?

Of course it's more complicated than just 'oh well you can all lose weight' but if more emphasis had been put on the fact that obesity is a massive factor in if you will end up very ill with Covid (or taking up a hospital bed with one of the many other health issues that come with being obese) then surely we could be in a better position now?

@Catsrcool69

The thing I'm struggling with is understanding how or whether this will ever end. I can't bear the thought that my young adult children will have their lives constrained in this way forever. Afterall, what ends this now??

Eventually there'll be wider availability of the treatments - the antivirals and the monoclonal antibodies (and anything else that comes along).

We'll also have better understanding and knowledge of what is still a new (possibly escaped from a lab) disease in the future.

In the meantime, we take mitigating measures - masks, good ventilation (including HEPA filters), and vaccine passes.

And put in place what we should've had pre pandemic. Good safety net, and an end to postcode lotteries - with healthcare and for anything else.

We also get the rest of the world vaccinated.

I've said before, it's a long tunnel but there is light at the end of it.

@TameDucksAtChatsworth

Heavens above, *@motheroflions*, you are becoming unnecessarily aggressive.

Do you plan on asking everyone who supports some extra sanctions what their financial position is? Do you think that is the only thing that motivates people on this issue?

No, I didn't say you voted Tory, I implied that you supported them or at least Boris et al. That is simply because you share the same position as them-you are both ignoring the science and what most other countries are doing in the name of self interest. You both want the same thing and you are both motivated by self interest.

I am unsure about your non-sequitur concerning Tesco.

However, my point is that if we don't follow the unelected scientists and impose some further sanctions-many countries have done or are in the process of doing this- then no, I don't think there will be anyone in Tesco to serve us. I think the infra structure of society will be in danger.

That is why the scientists are asking the government to protect the infra structure of this country but they, like you, are motivated by self interest.

Thats twice you have implied that i am something I am not. Its to deflect away from that I asked you a question - which neither of you will answer.

You are clearly ok financially so it doesnt matter to you if there if there are restrictions or lockdowns.

If the show was on the other foot - I doubt you would be so keen.

The scientists are not economists. They do not care about peoples incomes, home security ect.

There are also many many scientists and doctors that disagree with the current 'unelected' scientists that have their foot in door at the goverment.

Paradise you ignored the many complex reasons why somebody might be overweight.

To deal with it, we'll need a decent safety net, affordable housing, and good well funded and managed public services including the healthcare system.

You're not reading posts properly lions?

I don't want lockdown. Nor, I'd hazard a guess does ducks

I'm in the minority in the UK but personally I would have chosen domestic freedoms over international. Good pandemic border control from the start (with real quarantine for genuinely essential travel).

As we sadly haven't done that, my next call was for mitigation. We should have kept the masks, made use of good ventilation, vaccine passes.

Fail to take enough mitigation and lockdown of sorts happens regardless. It already is with many London theatres and businesses - staff off sick all at the same time. And it certainly happens with access to any medical care - Covid or non Covid. Aside from mass short-term staff sickness, many NHS staff are long-term ill - PTSD and/or Long Covid. And hundreds of them are dead from Covid.

If I was world leader there would never have been a pandemic - because every country in the world would have taken the East Asian border control approach.

But I'm not (world leader) nor do I want to be (I can hear your sighs of relief ). So the pandemic happened and we can't just wish it away, because that won't make it go away.

Tealights, I literally acknowledged in my post that it was more complicated... just like it's more complicated than just expecting everyone to get jabbed.

And while there are many complex issues, many people are just over weight because of bad choices. A government campaign to encourage healthier lifestyles and acknowledging that the risk is greater if you are overweight could have made a big difference.

shoe**

@motheroflions

I can see that you are worked up and emotional and you may have very good reasons for being so. However, these states very rarely allow for cogent argument because the thoughts flutter about, become disjointed and sometimes, incomprehensible.

I have certainly been there many times! Spluttering and farting, jabbing my finger and nodding my head as I encourage what I think is a smart argument, until the next morning when I think, 'shit!'

With that in mind, it would be unfair of me to bat anything back to you when you are angry but I look forward to debating other issues with you another time.

In any event, I've made my points and there's no point in repeating them. I very much doubt that I'm going to change anyone's mind but that's not really the point of these political debates is it?
We all just get some satisfaction from stating our view and I suppose that has to be enough.

I'm sure you wish me well in whatever is ahead of us and I certainly hope that you and your family come through too. I hope that for all of us.

I actually think that opinion has strongly turned against them.

Don't be so silly please! If someone is morbidly obese and over 65 then they will be far more likely to end up in hospital with Covid (regardless of how many jabs they have) in comparision to a fit and healthy 18 year old. Therefore, if we follow your theory, the people we should be banning from public are the elderly, overweight or anyone with health issues. Not something I'd personally advocate but then I'm not somebody who agrees with discrimination.

Exactly @nojudgementhere

It’s a good excuse for people with fat issues to vent, that’s for sure.

@Tealightsandd

You're not reading posts properly lions?

I don't want lockdown. Nor, I'd hazard a guess does ducks

I'm in the minority in the UK but personally I would have chosen domestic freedoms over international. Good pandemic border control from the start (with real quarantine for genuinely essential travel).

As we sadly haven't done that, my next call was for mitigation. We should have kept the masks, made use of good ventilation, vaccine passes.

Fail to take enough mitigation and lockdown of sorts happens regardless. It already is with many London theatres and businesses - staff off sick all at the same time. And it certainly happens with access to any medical care - Covid or non Covid. Aside from mass short-term staff sickness, many NHS staff are long-term ill - PTSD and/or Long Covid. And hundreds of them are dead from Covid.

If I was world leader there would never have been a pandemic - because every country in the world would have taken the East Asian border control approach.

But I'm not (world leader) nor do I want to be (I can hear your sighs of relief ). So the pandemic happened and we can't just wish it away, because that won't make it go away.

Still never answered my question...

[quote TameDucksAtChatsworth]@motheroflions

I can see that you are worked up and emotional and you may have very good reasons for being so. However, these states very rarely allow for cogent argument because the thoughts flutter about, become disjointed and sometimes, incomprehensible.

I have certainly been there many times! Spluttering and farting, jabbing my finger and nodding my head as I encourage what I think is a smart argument, until the next morning when I think, 'shit!'

With that in mind, it would be unfair of me to bat anything back to you when you are angry but I look forward to debating other issues with you another time.

In any event, I've made my points and there's no point in repeating them. I very much doubt that I'm going to change anyone's mind but that's not really the point of these political debates is it?
We all just get some satisfaction from stating our view and I suppose that has to be enough.

I'm sure you wish me well in whatever is ahead of us and I certainly hope that you and your family come through too. I hope that for all of us.[/quote]
@TameDucksAtChatsworth quit it with the passive aggressive digs. I am neither worked up or emotional. That is four adjectives you have used against me now, yet i havn't used any against you.If you cant converse properly with out hidden barbs I'm not going to respond to your posts aimed at me.

I have certainly been there many times! Spluttering and farting, jabbing my finger and nodding my head as I encourage what I think is a smart argument, until the next morning when I think, 'shit!'

Yeah i cant say I 'splutter and jab', maybe thats just your thing...

Or you should just put the wine down, thats probably best.

Still never answered my question...smile

A skill much required in politics. Perhaps I should run for world leader afterall...

@Tealightsandd

Still never answered my question...smile

A skill much required in politics. Perhaps I should run for world leader afterall...

Its not a skill dear, its just not having the guts to be transparent.

@Vapeyvapevape

I feel so sorry for shops and restaurants if they have to shut again. Will a circuit breaker work though? What would be an alternative?

You should feel sorry for them as without any financial support they may shut forever. What narks me the most is that people have been saying for weeks even months that lockdown is coming but no thought to the impacts. My job is in hospitality industry before the first lockdown everyone on mumsnet calling for it , Boris said don’t go out to pubs queue business panicking and cutting hours . Yes they put in the furlough scheme then lockdown but it’s still not fucking on talk of any kind of restrictions without financial support to businesses.

@gettingolderandgrumpy I’m so sorry, I really feel for you and all others in this position.

Well transparency doesn't get you very far in politics (whether that's a good thing is another matter). But luckily for you I'm not actually world leader. I'm just, like you, a member of the public, giving my opinion on an anonymous internet forum.

Goodnight dear.

@gettingolderandgrumpy it’s awful. The hospitality industry has taken a massive hit over the last couple of years and it’s really unfair.

@VikingOnTheFridge

No, it's just that it doesn't remotely affect my point.

More likely you don’t understand what ‘probably’ means.

The hospitality industry has taken a massive hit over the last couple of years and it’s really unfair.

You must be the most aggravating person on mumsnet. During lockdown when everyone else was educating their kids and doing their best you seemed to sit on mumsnet spouting misinformation and moaning 24/7 that our children's lives were over (try parenting not sitting on the interweb?) then a vaccine comes which you're reluctant to have while not really liking social distancing either and now you have developed a heart for the hospitality industry who have suffered as result of Covid (and would have suffered more if we'd all been dying in droves but you never acknowledge this). I conclude that the only thing that you can tolerate about all this is people actually dying as any measure to prevent it is the thing you have a problem with.

“During lockdown when everyone else was educating their kids and doing their best you seemed to sit on mumsnet spouting misinformation and moaning 24/7 that our children's lives were over”

What? During the first lockdown I was also home educating my children as well as working from home (P/T because of the HE). I was most certainly not moaning that our ‘Children’s lives were over’.

And I’ve always had sympathy for the hospitality industry.

You’ve either confused me with someone else or you’re being a bit of a GF.

You were always on mumsnet. I'd check in after a long day and there you'd be, prolifically and incessantly posting...

In the nicest possible way, you're notorious and possibly also the misinformed poster I have come across.

Ok. You’re entitled to your opinion. I hope you have a lovely evening :)