Independent sage: circuit breaker lockdown needed now

[XmasGoose]

I see Independent Sage have said that an immediate circuit breaker lockdown is needed to protect the NHS.

This would involve a total ban on household mixing, all bars, restaurants and indoor venues closing and schools shutting early for Christmas.

Is this needed now to protect the NHS and save lives? Personally I wouldn’t comply with another lockdown.

twitter.com/chrischirp/status/1471160024005324804?s=21

Tbh at this point I'm tripled vaccinated, so are my family, I wear masks and social distance, I'll take my chances.

It'll be a cold day in hell before I follow any of BJ's instructions. I'll have Christmas with who I want.

It’s not just NHS threatened but many countries health systems:

WHO special envoy Dr Nabarro’s exact words:

“We're concerned that people are dismissing Omicron as mild. Even if it is less severe, the sheer number of cases will overwhelm health systems."

"Wear facemasks. Maintain physical distance. Keep windows open. Practice superb hygiene."

@CovidMakesThingsHarder

Genuine question? But those against lockdown that think they do them for nothing, even if omicron is mild, but the amount of people hospitalised goes up as numbers do, what happens without a lockdown where you get to a point that so many healthcare staff are off sick, or there just aren’t enough beds. Then your child is in a car accident and an ambulance just doesn’t come, or your 40yr old friend has a heart attack and they can’t take them to treat the clot. That’s why it is, not for any other reason.

The NHS and their repeated catastrophic failures meant my Dad died unnecessarily in 2017.

The NHS and their repeated failures over the last FOUR years mean that unless my husband gets an operation very shortly he won't go on much longer.

The emotive manipulative language around "our" NHS, and the silly statements like "on its knees", "falling over" and "breaking" do absolutely nothing to convince me and many others that there is anything worthy left to save.

Guernsey is shutting schools early. Difficult but seems a sensible move.

@Trixiefirecracker

Every potential lockdown people ranting ‘well, they can do what they want but I’m not complying this time’. Unfortunately you will have to ‘comply’ if everything is shut. Sadly.

People love to trot this out as though it's a real gotcha. No, Einstein we can't go shopping or to the pub if they're closed. What we can do is carry on seeing friends and family, we can arrange to have our hair done at home, we can arrange playdates at home with likeminded individuals, we can tell our teenagers that yes they're boyfriend can stay over despite what the "rules" say.

People saying that any potential lockdown will be ignored because of our incompetent government and pm please spare a thought for people working in the health care sector !

The majority of people have took their vaccines and what was asked in past, this was our way out of it we were told.

We can't lockdown because the NHS is overwhelmed as why weren't we doing it before covid, and it will be massively damaged to society.

@Zotter totally agree. Everywhere is struggling, these are unprecedented times.

Of course, no ones listening but never mind eh. Grinch begone...

So what the hell is 2 weeks going to do? Nowhere in the world has successfully implemented a “circuit breaker” in a situation with high case numbers. If we go into lockdown we all know we’ll still be in it in at least 3 months time.

@DynamiteFilledRadish
The emotive manipulative language around "our" NHS, and the silly statements like "on its knees", "falling over" and "breaking" do absolutely nothing to convince me and many others that there is anything worthy left to save.

What people don't realise is how many people work for the NHS 1.5 million and plus subcontractors and majority of them never went near a covid patient.

It's emotive language, I especially hate the on there knees it doesn't mean anything.

Sage are probably right.
Unfortunately people will not comply anymore. Those who want to be vaccinated have been. Nobody wants to give up life anymore to save the very elderly, chronically ill and unvaccinated fat right wing 50 something men (that is the new propaganda on the street). People are willing to sacrifice these people for their own livelihoods, education and social lives. It isn’t about the NHS being saved that was also propaganda. It is mostly about those groups of people dying or being severely affected “the vulnerable”. The NHS will have to prioritise a 25 year old with a heart condition over a 79 year old. People know that and have had enough of the lies.
The only hope for people is to have their vaccines and keep themselves away from risky situations if they are vulnerable.
I think we just won’t live as long anymore- Covid will be here to stay and we all have to keep ourselves as healthy as possible.
The new propaganda on the street is where the Tories want us to be. The ill and very elderly are a burden on society anyway etc.

[quote Trixiefirecracker]@Zotter totally agree. Everywhere is struggling, these are unprecedented times.[/quote]
Yes :(

Sorry typo Dr Navarro not Dr Nabarro

@Incognito22333

Sage are probably right. Unfortunately people will not comply anymore. Those who want to be vaccinated have been. Nobody wants to give up life anymore to save the very elderly, chronically ill and unvaccinated fat right wing 50 something men (that is the new propaganda on the street). People are willing to sacrifice these people for their own livelihoods, education and social lives. It isn’t about the NHS being saved that was also propaganda. It is mostly about those groups of people dying or being severely affected “the vulnerable”. The NHS will have to prioritise a 25 year old with a heart condition over a 79 year old. People know that and have had enough of the lies. The only hope for people is to have their vaccines and keep themselves away from risky situations if they are vulnerable. I think we just won’t live as long anymore- Covid will be here to stay and we all have to keep ourselves as healthy as possible. The new propaganda on the street is where the Tories want us to be. The ill and very elderly are a burden on society anyway etc.

Don’t confuse Independent Sage with Sage. Independent Sage are fucking toxic.

There is a small part of me that thinks a lockdown wouldn’t be the worst thing - just because I worry that hinting heavily that people shouldn’t go to the pubs / theatres / etc etc but not actually closing them and supporting them is pretty catastrophic for these industries.

I don’t think they want a lockdown. Omnicron would likely still spread fast, just slightly less fast, and people would meet up. Lockdown is extraordinarily expensive and there would need to be a real sense of why we’re doing it (in x months it will be better because…) whereas this thing is going to explode in numbers anyway.

TheVampiresWife

Really interesting to see the difference in opinion now and in the past re potential lockdown. Unless I've missed it, there's not one voice of support on this thread so far. Similar threads last year were very, very different. I wonder how many on this thread have been more supportive of lockdowns in the past? It would be genuinely interesting to know, just to see how much attitudes have changed“

I was 100% supportive of lockdowns, until the vaccine. The UK is in a very different situation now.

Nothing will prevent us spending time at Christmas with our children/grandchild. We will all be fully vaccinated, boosted and have had time for very good protection to kick in by Christmas.

We’re happily mask wearing, sanitising, keeping contacts to the absolute minimum (never stopped). Not prepared to miss grandchild’s second Christmas as well. Just no.

The thing with independent sag is I suspect we’d have been in lockdown for 2 years if it was up to them.

They opposed reopening in July 2020, called for a lockdown in October 2020, called for the January 2021 lockdown to be harsher, opposed reopening in July and called for a lockdown in September

@thewhatsit

There is a small part of me that thinks a lockdown wouldn’t be the worst thing - just because I worry that hinting heavily that people shouldn’t go to the pubs / theatres / etc etc but not actually closing them and supporting them is pretty catastrophic for these industries.

I don’t think they want a lockdown. Omnicron would likely still spread fast, just slightly less fast, and people would meet up. Lockdown is extraordinarily expensive and there would need to be a real sense of why we’re doing it (in x months it will be better because…) whereas this thing is going to explode in numbers anyway.

Totally agree with you re industries - they need proper financial support. But schools must stay open - the alternative is worse, children can't miss any more, for both educational and mental health reasons. I also think criminalising household mixing will be a major mistake. Closing pubs and theatres etc would be a great shame, but provided they have the economic support, it's a potentially 'bearable' restriction (relatively speaking).

The only hope for people is to have their vaccines and keep themselves away from risky situations if they are vulnerable

Unfortunately vaccines don't work very well - if at all - for a lot of immunosuppressed, vulnerable people. And they still have to go to work, for example - often in high risk settings, like retail.

I don't want any more lockdowns. I'm immunosuppressed myself and I can't see an answer, I'm not sure there is one tbh.

@MrsSkylerWhite

TheVampiresWife

Really interesting to see the difference in opinion now and in the past re potential lockdown. Unless I've missed it, there's not one voice of support on this thread so far. Similar threads last year were very, very different. I wonder how many on this thread have been more supportive of lockdowns in the past? It would be genuinely interesting to know, just to see how much attitudes have changed“

I was 100% supportive of lockdowns, until the vaccine. The UK is in a very different situation now.

Nothing will prevent us spending time at Christmas with our children/grandchild. We will all be fully vaccinated, boosted and have had time for very good protection to kick in by Christmas.

We’re happily mask wearing, sanitising, keeping contacts to the absolute minimum (never stopped). Not prepared to miss grandchild’s second Christmas as well. Just no.

My journey is 100% same as yours. Found lockdown hard but complied knowing it would end one day with the vaccine. Happy to wear a mask indoors, get any vaccine that will help, and limit some activities if needs be, but a full on lockdown with banned household mixing 2nd Christmas in a row, when we've had all 3 jabs is a step too far.

@XmasGoose

The thing with independent sag is I suspect we’d have been in lockdown for 2 years if it was up to them.

They opposed reopening in July 2020, called for a lockdown in October 2020, called for the January 2021 lockdown to be harsher, opposed reopening in July and called for a lockdown in September

This.

Personally, I thought the "our march to freedom is irreversible" was a mistake because it set people up with all the wrong expectations in multiple ways.

But some easing in the summer was a sensible thing. Especially if the chances were that more restrictions would be in place in winter. People need a breathing space and summer is safer.

We have never tried circuit breakers in England really.

Lockdown is extraordinarily expensive and there would need to be a real sense of why we’re doing it (in x months it will be better because…)

Rightly or wrongly those days are gone IMO

From the very start some said that if we did it once we'd have to do it each time another variant appeared, and while there was a lot of belief - perhaps too much - that the jabs would solve everything, that's not been the case

For something to be accepted and work there has to be a real perceived benefit, and I'm not convinced they'll be able to swing that any more

@XmasGoose

The thing with independent sag is I suspect we’d have been in lockdown for 2 years if it was up to them.

They opposed reopening in July 2020, called for a lockdown in October 2020, called for the January 2021 lockdown to be harsher, opposed reopening in July and called for a lockdown in September

Well, they can fuck off again, and again, and again.

Try doing my job, Sage, and then come back with some sensible suggestions.

@HesterShaw1 I am being very lazy for just agreeing with you, rather than fighting this constructively, but am dealing with a DC (young adult) with MH problems caused by lockdowns so a bit frazzled. But you really are spot on.

If You think a circuit breaker lockdown is bad- think about the utter devastation to an unsupported leisure industry where pubs clubs and restaurants are haemorrhaging money and end up bankrupt because people choose to stay away voluntarily, which is happening now.

That will be much worse than a furlough supported closure, the job losses will be off the charts. Good luck going out then…