Proof of negative LFT?

JenniferAllisonPhillipaSue · 14/12/2021 07:27

Please don't stereotype.

I'm not vaccinated - not for either of the dismissive reasons you cite, just a personal choice - but I have to agree with you, it's far too easy to fabricate a negative result by simply registering the code from an LFT on the government site without actually doing the test. In the interests of discussion, do you think there's an alternative solution which includes tests or should access be restricted to only those vaccinated?

Original poster

Warhertisuff · 14/12/2021 07:51

@JenniferAllisonPhillipaSue

Please don't stereotype.

I'm not vaccinated - not for either of the dismissive reasons you cite, just a personal choice - but I have to agree with you, it's far too easy to fabricate a negative result by simply registering the code from an LFT on the government site without actually doing the test. In the interests of discussion, do you think there's an alternative solution which includes tests or should access be restricted to only those vaccinated?

I'm not sure... I think we just have to live with an element of risk here, as you have by not being vaccinated.

Even if tests were done on entrance, someone wanting to evade would presumably just fake a swab (eg hold hand up covering nose as the swab in the other hand glided along the outside of the nostril).

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Geamhradh · 14/12/2021 07:57

This is what surprised me. I'm in Italy and had my first LFT on Friday as we have our first case at school since September. (Thought we'd got away with it!)
We can only have LFTs done by HCPs and my result from the chemist was given to me at 11.04am and showing on my pass by 11.14. Yesterday the result was deleted from my pass automatically as no longer valid due to 48 hours passing.
Self-administered tests are just open to abuse.

DorotheaDiamond · 14/12/2021 07:59

I’ve been wondering the same thing!

DorotheaDiamond · 14/12/2021 08:00

I guess it’s more to get the people who don’t mind doing it to actually remember to do it than to have any hope of catching people who would be willing to fake it anyway

JenniferAllisonPhillipaSue · 14/12/2021 08:03

But testing by HCP cannot be provided in the order of magnitude required in the UK - LFT for attending school, for going into the workplace, before you even get to LFT for social events such as the theatre and football matches.

I don't know the solution either. Restricting access to only those vaccinated would not be a problem for me (as I'm making an active choice) but would be discriminatory to those who cannot be vaccinated for health reasons - which pushes the burden onto GP surgeries etc to provide evidence.

MinkyWinky · 14/12/2021 08:04

They may ask for the email from the NHS site showing that you've registered the test. Each test has a unique code. I suppose you could register a test as negative, but it makes is more difficult.

(Our school was asking for registrations not photos of a negative test)

milkysmum · 14/12/2021 08:08

Agree, ridiculous amounts of people are just registering negative tests without taking them at all- it's a pointless strategy.
People are not even hiding this- lots of requests on Facebook seen over the past week with things like " please can someone send me a couple of LFT codes- need to take ds to see Santa and no way am I actually testing in case one of us has it and ds misses out" 😡

Original poster

Warhertisuff · 14/12/2021 08:09

@MinkyWinky

They may ask for the email from the NHS site showing that you've registered the test. Each test has a unique code. I suppose you could register a test as negative, but it makes is more difficult.

(Our school was asking for registrations not photos of a negative test)

The action of registering a test is exactly as much work if you take or fake a test surely?

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JenniferAllisonPhillipaSue · 14/12/2021 08:10

Registering an LFT as negative on the gov.uk site is no more complex than ordering the LFTs in the first place. So if a certain individual were determined to attend an event, but equally determined not to carry out an LFT, it's not difficult for them to register an un-taken test.

Maybe there should be two 'categories' of LFT: one self-administered for school, work, daily activities; and one carried out by HCP for attending mass events?

Geamhradh · 14/12/2021 08:14

@JenniferAllisonPhillipaSue

But testing by HCP cannot be provided in the order of magnitude required in the UK - LFT for attending school, for going into the workplace, before you even get to LFT for social events such as the theatre and football matches.

I don't know the solution either. Restricting access to only those vaccinated would not be a problem for me (as I'm making an active choice) but would be discriminatory to those who cannot be vaccinated for health reasons - which pushes the burden onto GP surgeries etc to provide evidence.

It's the same here though.

Covid pass (showing vaccination, recovery or negative test) required for almost everything.

Every workplace, transport. Public events.

The only thing it's not required for is school (kids, the teachers have to) I think if the vaccination of teens hadn't been taken up to the extent it has though, it might have been implemented in September for them as well. I know primary schools are currently decimated as they're only just starting the Vax programme for that age group so the testing and quarantine is constant.

Fingers crossed we're at the end of the beginning everywhere if not the beginning of the end! (Which would obviously be Sven nicer!)

Sonex · 14/12/2021 08:15

I think we have to accept that the people who have chosen to remain unvaccinated are outliers now who will never participate in any efforts to curb covid 19 spread. The 2 people I know who refuse to get vaccinated are deep into ridiculous conspiracies about it all and refuse to do any testing either. So they have never done and won't do lateral flows. They don't possess any to do at home (because they think they give you cancer or are part of the chip insertion process .... Yes, really).

I think we just work round these people now.

I do have to say, having recently been in France, we are an absolute shambles compared to Europe. They got on with the Covid passes, didn't relax everything over the summer so that they then had to try and persuade people to wear masks again like our govt did, and don't take any shit off anti vaxxers. If you won't at least play along with the system you don't get in bars and restaurants there.

We are just a joke really, asking people to do daily lat flows and then instantly running out of them, having a system that is so easy to fake. It's always going to be a best endeavours thing.

I mean how are they going to enforce the 7 days of lat flow testing thing? I use them all the time but never report negative ones. Are we supposed to now?

Original poster

Warhertisuff · 14/12/2021 08:15

Even if you have to show an actual test, presumably you just wouldn't swab if you wanted to fake it? You'd just dip the stick in the liquid and put it onto the test, it having gone nowhere near your nose....

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BarbaraofSeville · 14/12/2021 08:16

There's holes a mile wide in the current system as there's no proof that the test registered was done on the person they say it was or on the correct day.

And that's before you get to ways of faking tests, which I'm sure is possible to fake a negative, or indeed a positive test if you want an excuse to get out of something you don't want to do.

JenniferAllisonPhillipaSue · 14/12/2021 08:19

This an interesting debate about LFT, please don't take it downhill by stereotyping all the non-vax'd as conspiracy theorists anti-vaxers.

(Also, I wouldn't shout about having unregistered negative LFT, apparently there are idiots on FB who would kill you for those codes )

JenniferAllisonPhillipaSue · 14/12/2021 08:21

If they could widen the PCR testing capability, do you think it would be a better move to require evidence of a negative PCR rather than LFT? Or not, because they can still be self-administered? Is it the lack of healthcare oversight that enables the fraud?

Sonex · 14/12/2021 08:25

They're welcome to get them out of my recycling bin. I don't care about people who refuse to test (or vaccinate). Unless they have a medical reason or exception (in which case have a system where they get a letter and it shows up on their app, job done) then I think they are foolish, irresponsible and selfish and will continue to describe them as such - as are the 2 people I know who I mentioned. They're entitled to their beliefs, as am I.

TisTheSeasonToBeVegan · 14/12/2021 08:26

Given that those who aren't vaccinated, in the main, aren't especially concerned about the virus and either believe it's nonsense or massively overblown, aren't they exactly the type who would be much more likely to fake a LFT result rather than miss out on a big event?

I’m not vaccinated and neither I nor other unvaccinated people I know believe that covid is nonsense or massively overblown.

None of the unvaccinated people I know are mixing with others very much at all. They definitely wouldn’t be going to a big event and they’re all taking LFTs twice a week and before seeing people. Most are just going out when absolutely necessary.

My family had an Xmas meal last week with 20 ish people. We chose not to go. I think it’s a bit of a myth that unvaccinated people also won’t do LFTs or will fake them, it’s not my experience at all.

Original poster

Warhertisuff · 14/12/2021 08:27

@JenniferAllisonPhillipaSue

If they could widen the PCR testing capability, do you think it would be a better move to require evidence of a negative PCR rather than LFT? Or not, because they can still be self-administered? Is it the lack of healthcare oversight that enables the fraud?

The issue is the potential for not being honest with the test results not the type of test. It's presumably as easy to fake a home PCR as it is a LFT.

There would have to be a ten-fold increase in capacity to cope I'd think based on the number of tests, and they're not that much more reliable than LFTs anyway. Also; there's the time. Take a LFT and you know in 15 minutes (most of the time it's more like 2 minutes in my experience!) compared to a day or so for PCRs, 3 days for postal ones when you've factored in the palaver of ordering, taking the test and then posting them back.

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daisypond · 14/12/2021 08:29

As you can’t even get hold of a LFT, it’s all moot. None available at any site within 30 miles - the maximum distance on the NHS site - or to order online.

DumplingsAndStew · 14/12/2021 08:32

@Sonex

They're welcome to get them out of my recycling bin

Sorry, just noticed this and wanted to say LFT should be put in household general waste, not recycling, unfortunately

www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-disposal-of-waste-from-lateral-flow-device-testing-in-scotland---faqs/

TisTheSeasonToBeVegan · 14/12/2021 08:33

I think we have to accept that the people who have chosen to remain unvaccinated are outliers now who will never participate in any efforts to curb covid 19 spread.

That’s not true for many. I stay home most of the time, only going out when I have to and have wore a mask throughout when I do go out. I’m not going to events. I do my shopping online. I’ve not had the vaccine but I’ve done everything else to stop me catching or spreading covid and if there’s anything else I can do, other than have the vaccine, I will.

Sonex · 14/12/2021 08:34

PCR test are incredibly specific and reliable if administered correctly. Even the modern lat flow devices are quite accurate actually when done correctly, the issue is they don't show up until you have an active infection.

The only way as others have said is to do administered testing with results uploaded to the app, and we just don't have the infrastructure, or will in many cases, to do that. I don't know what the a see is but I think announcing programs like you have to do 7 lat flow tests at home that effectively means you just need 7 codes if you.come.into contact with a positive person just makes the government look foolish.- particularly when people who didn't stockpile them can't get them and there's no detail about if/how it will be checked.

DorotheaDiamond · 14/12/2021 08:34

I’m not sure at home pcrs are fake able for negatives…I think they do check for human dna in the sample so you couldn’t just not swab and send it in (could be wrong)…

TisTheSeasonToBeVegan · 14/12/2021 08:36

I’m sure there will be some unvaccinated people who will try to get out of doing the tests properly but there’s also vaccinated people going to events with covid symptoms and not being honest. In any group of people, there will be ones willing to be dishonest.