If you dare to question science you are labelled uneducated?

[Clovesinmyorange]

As the title states.

I’m finding myself getting more and more angry at this attitude.
It’s the current ‘trend’ if you will, that if you dare to question science you are stupid or uneducated. Having some reservations about things, means you are completely wrong and an imbecile.

The worst thing to do in this situation is to tell ‘anti vaxxers’ or people who are hesitant about the vaccine that they are wrong or stupid. This will backfire greatly and it’s certainly not a way of winning them over. This exact thing happened with Brexit too…which is why we are where we are with that.

It’s usually left wing guardian readers (yes I read the guardian) but the same people who are usually very vocal about how supportive they are of other peoples ethics, beliefs and backgrounds.

This exact thing happened with Brexit too…which is why we are where we are with that.

Possibly not the best example. They have been proven to be wrong or stupid.

I am a severe needlephobe.. and have been called uneducated, thick, anti-vaxxer etc. My reason for not being vaccinated is nothing to do with any social media video, or any other narrative.

I am fed up with all the name calling tbh. Name calling does not change minds.

Hang on though - if you are not a ‘scientist’ or virologist/medic/medical statistician etc how could you question the expert findings ? I’m none of these things and, whilst open to peer reviewed conflicting expert advice, I’m not going to question the experts.
Think I must have misunderstood your post op and if so Apols.

I mean...yes. In the way most people "question science", anyway.

There's a difference between saying something like "well, that sample size is very small and I'm not sure I'd have drawn those conclusions at this stage" and asking trite questions a four-year-old would ask that show you really don't understand at all.

People these days seem to think their opinion that they based on Facebook posts and some crap they read on the internet is somehow of equal weight as that of an extremely intelligent person who has dedicated their life to becoming an expert in their field.

Are you in a position to really interrogate the science, OP? Have you any scientific knowledge or training that makes you better placed to make decisions about this pandemic in place of those that have?

@CorrBlimeyGG

This exact thing happened with Brexit too…which is why we are where we are with that.

Possibly not the best example. They have been proven to be wrong or stupid.

But it's our fault, you see, for calling them stupid at the time! If only we had pandered to them a bit more, they might have voted the other way rather than just trying to spite us!

...and then they wonder why people think they're childish, uneducated twits.

@HeronLanyon

Hang on though - if you are not a ‘scientist’ or virologist/medic/medical statistician etc how could you question the expert findings ? I’m none of these things and, whilst open to peer reviewed conflicting expert advice, I’m not going to question the experts. Think I must have misunderstood your post op and if so Apols.

I agree. Like how do you mean question science? Are you also a scientist conducting research or do you just mean if you dare say things like 'the vaccine doesn't stop you spreading covid anyway so what's the point'?

the same people who are usually very vocal about how supportive they are of other peoples ethics, beliefs and backgrounds
Science isn’t a belief though. It’s logic and facts. If you disagree with science then you’re failing to consider those facts and instead relying on blind faith. So of course people think you’re uneducated if you’re unable to understand the evidence and its logical conclusion and instead just believe blindly in something with no proof.

There’s “ I think the sample size was too small so perhaps more research is needed” and “Covid vaccines don’t work because someone on the internet said so”
The first one is fine, the second one is uneducated at best

I wouldn't call an expert or scientist questioning it uneducated, if they had the knowledge and background to ask the right questions.

I don't blame anyone for doing research to try to understand things they don't have knowledge of.

I draw the line at people spouting mistruths and nonsense that has no basis and no evidence just because it fits their narratives. Those people are morons in my eyes.

Science was and still should be questioned. And you know.. scientists do argue a lot. Don’t ask me how I know this tho

@XenoBitch

I am a severe needlephobe.. and have been called uneducated, thick, anti-vaxxer etc. My reason for not being vaccinated is nothing to do with any social media video, or any other narrative.

I am fed up with all the name calling tbh. Name calling does not change minds.

I agree it’s not fair you have been lumped in with the Bill Gates is injecting us with trackers brigade but the blame for that mostly lies with them rather than scientists or people who believe, you know, proven facts

Honestly? Yes, if you question the conclusions of something you are not trained in then I would question you. I don't go along with the conclusive of science because I'm equally educated but because I respect their training.

@Clovesinmyorange

As the title states.

I’m finding myself getting more and more angry at this attitude.
It’s the current ‘trend’ if you will, that if you dare to question science you are stupid or uneducated. Having some reservations about things, means you are completely wrong and an imbecile.

The worst thing to do in this situation is to tell ‘anti vaxxers’ or people who are hesitant about the vaccine that they are wrong or stupid. This will backfire greatly and it’s certainly not a way of winning them over. This exact thing happened with Brexit too…which is why we are where we are with that.

It’s usually left wing guardian readers (yes I read the guardian) but the same people who are usually very vocal about how supportive they are of other peoples ethics, beliefs and backgrounds.

Unless you’re a qualified scientist yourself, then you are uneducated.

I’m certainly uneducated when it comes to science, even if I am educated otherwise.

I don’t question science because I do understand the rigours around research, evidence and evaluation, and that scientists simply do not come up with things on a whim. It does not work that way.

So yes, when someone with zero scientific background questions things which have been robustly researched by people (multiple) qualified to do so, I do judge them as - well, let’s put it this way: lacking a tad in the critical thinking area.

Surely that's an easy one to settle. Do you have a masters in epidemiology or virology and several years of research experience?

If you are an experienced virologist with years of research under your belt, then questioning the science is your job, on behalf of all of us, because you have the knowledge & skills to do so. That is called peer-review and is an essential part of any scientific research.

If you don't have any scientific qualifications, then you simply don't have the knowledge to reach a valid conclusion.

What you believe is up to you, but persuading others to your viewpoint is irresponsible and puts them at risk.

If people are being called uneducated for asking questions because they are genuinely interested in what science can tell us, that’s a shame. Questioning with an open mind is healthy.

The kind of questioning that will label you uneducated are rhetorical questions where the questioner isn’t really interested in the answer. They just want to reinforce their own views.

@Hoppinggreen

u agree it’s not fair you have been lumped in with the Bill Gates is injecting us with trackers brigade but the blame for that mostly lies with them rather than scientists or people who believe, you know, proven facts

Don't worry. That particular poster comes up with a different reason to not get vaccinated every day of the week.

Youve rendered your argument silly by mentioning Brexit. Firstly because its a shitshow, and secondly because theyre not remotely comparable.
Science is put through rigorous measures. Science can be proven as fact.
The general public STILL dont comprehend vaccines were never designed to stop the spread when we are around 2 years deep in this.
Do you think if they cant take time to learn why that theyre going to have more educated ideas on science than scientists?

You can question the science when you are as educated as the scientists you are arguing with.

Because people who say "question science" aren't really questioning science, but repeating something they read somewhere else and thinks they know better than scientist.
Or pretending to question science, but really, they are just trying to spread misinformation.

I don't understand the OP. I am certainly stupid and uneducated when it comes to science, as compared to Chris Whitty. Because I have no scientific education. I am not qualified to do my "own research." Most people on MN are not either.

I think you have the right to state your opinion, but if your opinion isn't well considered, lacks logic, and isn't backed by data, you can't expect it to command the same respect as an opinion that does?
If you were happy with your beliefs, you'd remain happy when they were questioned and would feel confident about rebuttals.

The fed up feeling is cognitive dissonance - knowing that there's info out there that doesn't fit nicely into your world view, and knowing you have to climb down and dismantle some of your mindset.

The thing is, ‘the science’ is laser focussed on the virus and on stopping its spread, by any means necessary. It’s not about taking a rounded view of the whole pandemic - the negative effects of lockdown, closing schools, NHS waiting lists etc. That’s not of any concern to ‘the science’, but it is to us and that’s why many question it.

[quote OnlyAFleshWound]@Hoppinggreen

u agree it’s not fair you have been lumped in with the Bill Gates is injecting us with trackers brigade but the blame for that mostly lies with them rather than scientists or people who believe, you know, proven facts

Don't worry. That particular poster comes up with a different reason to not get vaccinated every day of the week.[/quote]
ODFOD...
Live in my shoes.

What do you mean by question the science, OP? Are you talking about making well-informed points about the methodology and analysis of the experts’ conclusions? Or just that usual thing where badly-informed people lack the capacity to understand what they can’t see and thus believe that their biased interpretations of their own tiny experience outweighs large-scale studies conducted and reviewed by experts with advanced degrees and decades of experience in their field?