If you dare to question science you are labelled uneducated?

[Clovesinmyorange]

As the title states.

I’m finding myself getting more and more angry at this attitude.
It’s the current ‘trend’ if you will, that if you dare to question science you are stupid or uneducated. Having some reservations about things, means you are completely wrong and an imbecile.

The worst thing to do in this situation is to tell ‘anti vaxxers’ or people who are hesitant about the vaccine that they are wrong or stupid. This will backfire greatly and it’s certainly not a way of winning them over. This exact thing happened with Brexit too…which is why we are where we are with that.

It’s usually left wing guardian readers (yes I read the guardian) but the same people who are usually very vocal about how supportive they are of other peoples ethics, beliefs and backgrounds.

Why are people singling @XenoBitch out? She can be reluctant to have the vaccine for whatever reason. It’s not against the law.

Wondering1000

“A recent Johns Hopkins study claims more than 250,000 people in the U.S. die every year from medical errors - other reports claim the numbers to be as high as 440,000.”

Sigh.

This is quite old now and has been roundly criticised (by other scientists) and debunked.

You have inadvertently just illustrated why non-experts shouldn’t be “doing their own research” .

You’ve picked up individual findings from non-scientific literature sources and used it to fit your own world view.

There are a variety of sources that can be found on the subject but here is a nice commentary in plain English as to why this claim is false, for anyone interested.

www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/critical-thinking-health/medical-error-not-third-leading-cause-death

@TheScenicWay

Why are people singling *@XenoBitch* out? She can be reluctant to have the vaccine for whatever reason. It’s not against the law.

I am baffled. And like others have said, I am consistent in my "excuses" to not be jabbed.

@XenoBitch

You don't believe that COVID is a major threat to health.

Not only are you unvaccinated, but you refuse to wear a mask, even for hospital appointments and in ambulances and taxis, putting nurses, doctors, taxi drivers and paramedics at risk.

You will claim that you have legitimate reasons for all of these things. And yet, rather than making up for your personal refusal to get vaccinated or to wear a mask by helping in some other way, you spend all of your time on here, pushing every single anti-vaxx, anti-mask narrative you can, and attempting to undermine other people's sincere, altruistic efforts to do the right thing.

It's really toxic and unhelpful.

May be some people were expecting to have immunity for longer than three to 6 months?

Why are people expecting absolutes in a new situation ? How many people discovered they needed an extra booster injection for Rubella after they had given birth ? How many people needed more than the normal amount of Hep B injections when joining the NHS ?

@TheScenicWay

Why are people singling *@XenoBitch* out? She can be reluctant to have the vaccine for whatever reason. It’s not against the law.

Are you new to this board?

‘The science’ is a pretty broad term.

I for instance think producing so many different types of vaccines so quickly has been amazing and we’d be in a much worse position. Are they perfect? No but there’s still no don’t they’ve saved many lives.

At the other end of the spectrum you’ve got Sage and other merchants of doom with various real scientific qualifications who IMO are actually more dangerous than some of the anti vaxxers and conspiracy theorist who are obviously nutjobs.

At the other end of the spectrum you’ve got Sage and other merchants of doom with various real scientific qualifications who IMO are actually more dangerous than some of the anti vaxxers and conspiracy theorist who are obviously nutjobs.

Can you explain in what way you belive them to be 'more dangerous' than the 'nutjobs' ?

@scottish83

A few thoughts here.

Scientists don't always agree on things. Take the independent sage people who have very different conclusions compared to most of the mainstream scientists. Isn't it reasonable to question how two sets of people can come to different conclusions from one set of data and to understand their different biases and motivations?

We also have the right - and duty - to question whether the findings are a good idea.

Take the idea of lockdowns. From an epidemiology perspective, I'm on board with the idea that they will quash covid.

But the problem is that the proponents of restrictions and lockdowns never tell us about the impact of these on people's salaries, their children's long term educational prospects, the impact on people's mental health and relationships.

So yeah, there is a lot they can learn from us uneducated people.

to question whether the findings are a good idea, which is nice in theory but then if the gains outweigh the negative, even if the majority of the public disagreed, then sometimes would the sacrifice for the greater good be made ?

[quote OnlyAFleshWound]@XenoBitch

You don't believe that COVID is a major threat to health.

Not only are you unvaccinated, but you refuse to wear a mask, even for hospital appointments and in ambulances and taxis, putting nurses, doctors, taxi drivers and paramedics at risk.

You will claim that you have legitimate reasons for all of these things. And yet, rather than making up for your personal refusal to get vaccinated or to wear a mask by helping in some other way, you spend all of your time on here, pushing every single anti-vaxx, anti-mask narrative you can, and attempting to undermine other people's sincere, altruistic efforts to do the right thing.

It's really toxic and unhelpful.[/quote]
I don't think it is a major threat to MY health. And if it was... good. I wish I was dead anyway.

I can't wear a mask due to reasons that are none of your business. The hospital staff told me not to struggle and try, ambulance staff never mentioned it, as did taxi (which was a cab ride home from a 136 suite... maybe look up what that is before you pass judgement).
So what is the "anti-vaxx, anti-mask etc" crap you are claiming I am trying to pull? I wish the reason I could not wear a mask never happened.. so I can wear one. I wish was not so needle phobic that I am so far unvaccinated. If you AS me, you will also see I am waiting for the nasal spray version.,

Again, tell me why you are trying to smear my name? What is in it for you? Or are you just a troll trying their best to make someone feel shit?

@Wrongkindofovercoat

At the other end of the spectrum you’ve got Sage and other merchants of doom with various real scientific qualifications who IMO are actually more dangerous than some of the anti vaxxers and conspiracy theorist who are obviously nutjobs.

Can you explain in what way you belive them to be 'more dangerous' than the 'nutjobs' ?

Sorry, I meant independent sage.

I don’t know about the UK but here in Australia we have a number of epidemiologists that have nearly become household names during the epidemic. They get interviewed on TV all the time and while some of them are balanced and reasonable others have put forward wildly exaggerated scenarios that have been obviously never going to eventuate and have scared lots of the general public.

We also have OzSage who I believe are connected to Independent Sage that have sprouted what I see as very extreme and alarmist views and predictions.

The anti science nutjobs aren’t being presented as people the public should trust by mainstream media unlike the Covid doomsdayers. That’s why I think some scientists are possibly more dangerous.

@xenobitch

The hospital staff told me not to struggle and try, ambulance staff never mentioned it, as did taxi (which was a cab ride home from a 136 suite... maybe look up what that is before you pass judgement)

Of course they didn't mention it. What good would it have done if they had?

The point is that you have no regard at all for their health. You know you're endangering them and you don't care.

For someone who claims not to be anti-vaxx or anti-mask, you certainly dedicate a hell of a lot of time to posting anti-vaxx and anti-mask comments.

[quote OnlyAFleshWound]@xenobitch

The hospital staff told me not to struggle and try, ambulance staff never mentioned it, as did taxi (which was a cab ride home from a 136 suite... maybe look up what that is before you pass judgement)

Of course they didn't mention it. What good would it have done if they had?

The point is that you have no regard at all for their health. You know you're endangering them and you don't care.

For someone who claims not to be anti-vaxx or anti-mask, you certainly dedicate a hell of a lot of time to posting anti-vaxx and anti-mask comments.[/quote]
I was in hospital for mental health reasons. They know I struggle with a mask.. so me not wearing one and being able to talk was pretty vital for the appointment. I took a shield and was told to remove it. I tried

So please don't think you know the reason they said not to wear one.. because you have no idea.

Who was I endangering? At the point i was so mentally unwell that I needed the appointments, I was not leaving my house at all, and not seeing anyone.

Why THE FUCK are you focussing so much on me right now? Get a life.

@OnlyAFleshWound I think you’re being unfair. Xenobitch defends the principle of people being mask exempt and not having to prove that, which is the current law, as well as arguing against mandatory vaccines.

I don’t agree with everything she says, but saying that you think people who cannot wear a mask shouldn’t be harassed for it, and that vaccines shouldn’t be mandatory is neither anti-mask nor anti-vaccine. I agree with both those points and I wear a mask, have had two vaccine doses and will have a booster when invited.

[quote SickAndTiredAgain]@OnlyAFleshWound I think you’re being unfair. Xenobitch defends the principle of people being mask exempt and not having to prove that, which is the current law, as well as arguing against mandatory vaccines.

I don’t agree with everything she says, but saying that you think people who cannot wear a mask shouldn’t be harassed for it, and that vaccines shouldn’t be mandatory is neither anti-mask nor anti-vaccine. I agree with both those points and I wear a mask, have had two vaccine doses and will have a booster when invited.[/quote]
Thanks.
I feel like my own personal health is being put up for question here.. is not fair and not right at all.

[quote SickAndTiredAgain]@OnlyAFleshWound I think you’re being unfair. Xenobitch defends the principle of people being mask exempt and not having to prove that, which is the current law, as well as arguing against mandatory vaccines.

I don’t agree with everything she says, but saying that you think people who cannot wear a mask shouldn’t be harassed for it, and that vaccines shouldn’t be mandatory is neither anti-mask nor anti-vaccine. I agree with both those points and I wear a mask, have had two vaccine doses and will have a booster when invited.[/quote]
No one has suggested that people should be harassed for not wearing a mask.

I'm suggesting that some personal reflection on totally selfish behaviour might be in order, rather than devoting many, many hours to arguing against vaccinations, masks, lockdowns, and all other measures intended to limit the spread of covid.

I have a science degree in a health related subject. I’ve been called uneducated and thick on here for pointing out that a corona virus mutates often and that some point we ARE going to have to learn with it.
We cannot put life on hold forever and the knock on effects of this will be with us for decades- all the issues we’ve quietly put to one side for Covid are still there bubbling away under the surface, and it’s going to be a shock to the system when we realise we have to deal with those too.

*to live with it

Ok talk us through your process for questioning the science then?

[quote OnlyAFleshWound]@XenoBitch

Get a life.

You've posted more than 500 times in the Coronavirus topic alone since August. That's the argument you want to have? Really?

You think it was OK to endanger the taxi driver? Or does he/she not really count as a person?[/quote]
What has my post count got to do with anything?
Like I said, it seems you are trying so hard to smear my name. Why?
I post a lot because I am worried about the current situation. Lots of people are. Please seek them down and tell them they are posting too much too.

You seem obsessed with this taxi driver. I had not left my house at all, not seen a soul for a few weeks. I was sectioned under the Mental Health Act, taken to a place of safety and then taken home by this taxi driver that you seem so obsessed about.

You seem obsessed with this taxi driver

Not everyone thinks that other people's lives are as cheap as you do.

Also, I don't think you understand what the word 'smear' means. Anyone who's a member on this site can do an advanced search.

@OnlyAFleshWound

You seem obsessed with this taxi driver

Not everyone thinks that other people's lives are as cheap as you do.

Also, I don't think you understand what the word 'smear' means. Anyone who's a member on this site can do an advanced search.

Ok, call me dumb. I am just a dumb ass mental health patient that found herself in a taxi going home after being sectioned.

Live with that.

Hopefully the thread will get back on track rather than derailed, unless of course that's your aims, and well, party. But try not to spoil it for the those who want varied perspectives please.

Scientists have children, workplaces, like to go out and have a social life like anyone else. Very strange, this notion that hard working ‘ordinary folk’ are being ‘made’ to restrict themselves by Spock like scientists who only work in a lab by themselves anyway.

Honestly it’s not that hard to understand. We’ve had two years of the virus, and two years of people patiently going through what the science means. What is so hard to get? It’s airborne, if you don’t wear a mask and share an indoor space you could infect someone without knowing it. That’s how it spreads.

If you want to argue against that, well that is pretty silly.