Good news re Omicron

[Tryingtryingandtrying]

twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1468985784338366468?t=0RA5_V7CWbGjhgxfNIDbAQ&s=19

All looking pretty positive.

@bumbleymummy

Yep.

These parts in particular make you look very confused between what vaccines do and what vaccine passports are supposed to do.

“ The goal isn't to stop covid spreading, the goal is to reduce the number of people going into hospital with it”

“ Yes, you WILL read about outbreaks at events where vaccines were needed, because covid is highly transmissible, and as I've just said, the vaccines aren't 100% protective. The question is, how many of those people went into hospital or died? If the answer is zero then fantastic! The vaccine passports are working. Now, some people may still die. Does that mean the passports are useless? No! How many people would have died if they hadn't been
vaccinated?”

I had hoped that the link between the two would be obvious, but apparently not for you, so here we go.

Vaccines make it far less likely that the recipient will get severe covid. Are you with me so far? Very good.

A digital passport that certifies that the holder has been vaccinated is a way of ensuring (not a foolproof way of course, as they can be faked, but far better than nothing) that only vaccinated people enter a venue. Still with me? So having a vaccine passport means you're vaccinated. Got it?

Here's the big reveal...the connection between these two things....are you ready? Drumroll!

If I hold an event with 10,000 people and require everyone to have a vaccine passport (which means they are vaccinated, just in case you're still having trouble understanding the link), the chances of any of those 10,000 people needing hospital treatment, especially the ICU, are far lower than if some or all of those 10,000 people were unvaccinated. Not zero. Far lower.

It doesn't mean nobody who enters will have covid. It doesn't mean that nobody will get covid AT the event. It means that the chances of someone being hospitalised as the result of my event are far lower than they otherwise would be. And therefore, my event is less of a public health hazard and potential strain on the NHS than it otherwise would be. This isn't an opinion. This is a fact.

Do let me know if you need it broken down even further.

@fakereview

Even if it's milder for almost everyone, the fact it's far more transmissable is a serious problem for a country with a crumbling health service. A small percentage of a very large number is enough to overload hospitals

I don't understand this. Flu and colds can cause lots of people to go into hospital. I don't see the difference between a milder version of covid and the flu?

If flu was as transmissible as Omicron (or even other Covid variants) it would overwhelm the NHS because more people would be infected more quickly so many more would need the hospital at once.

Omicron doubles every 2-3 days so imagine doubling the number in hospital with flu every 2-3 days. Within two weeks it’s overwhelmed.

Oh no, I understand completely what you’re trying to say. You’re just wrong. :)

Currently vaccine passports are required for things like nightclubs whose clientele are primarily young people who are already at the lowest risk of becoming seriously ill and being hospitalised with covid. The point of the passports being brought in, as stated by BJ at the plan B press conference, is to try to reduce the spread of the virus. The problem is a) vaccinated people can still contract and spread the virus so we’re basically just giving potentially infected people a free pass to enter a crowded venue without testing (stupid and pointless) and b) the current concern is that the new variant can evade two doses of the vaccine which is what most people in that age group will have had at this point and they’re not currently being offered boosters so, again, they could be infected and we’re letting them enter a crowded venue without testing - stupid and pointless.

Hope that’s cleared things up for you a bit.

@bumbleymummy

Oh no, I understand completely what you’re trying to say. You’re just wrong. :)

Currently vaccine passports are required for things like nightclubs whose clientele are primarily young people who are already at the lowest risk of becoming seriously ill and being hospitalised with covid. The point of the passports being brought in, as stated by BJ at the plan B press conference, is to try to reduce the spread of the virus. The problem is a) vaccinated people can still contract and spread the virus so we’re basically just giving potentially infected people a free pass to enter a crowded venue without testing (stupid and pointless) and b) the current concern is that the new variant can evade two doses of the vaccine which is what most people in that age group will have had at this point and they’re not currently being offered boosters so, again, they could be infected and we’re letting them enter a crowded venue without testing - stupid and pointless.

Hope that’s cleared things up for you a bit.

No, you just don't get it.

Testing en masse isn't any more reliable than having a vaccine certificate. It takes up far more money, resources, and time than showing or scanning a QR code for no real gain at all.

I'm sorry that almost two years into the pandemic, you still don't seem to realise that lateral flow tests really aren't that reliable. They definitely don't prove that people don't have covid, like you seem to think they do.

They definitely don't prove that people don't have covid

And neither do vaccine passports - hence, stupid and pointless.

Don’t assume someone doesn’t understand you just because they disagree with you :)

@bumbleymummy

They definitely don't prove that people don't have covid

And neither do vaccine passports - hence, stupid and pointless.

Don’t assume someone doesn’t understand you just because they disagree with you :)

Oh my God.

As I've said about a billion times now, something not being 100% effective does not make it pointless! How is that just not going into your head? You say you understand but then you go right back to parroting the same nonsense.

I assume you wear a seatbelt when driving, yes? You do realise a lot of people still die in accidents wearing a seatbelt, right? Do you think seatbelts are pointless?

As I've said about a billion times now, something not being 100% effective does not make it pointless!

Except LFTs? Double standards.

The effectiveness of AZ against omicron is bothering me.

Dh had az just before they decided to change the rules and not offer it to under 40s. So he can't get a booster.

But it also means that we have a bunch of people over 40 who had AZ. Many of whom cant get booking for boosters still.

@bumbleymummy

As I've said about a billion times now, something not being 100% effective does not make it pointless!

Except LFTs? Double standards.

I didn't say LFTs were pointless. I said they're really not that reliable, so it doesn't make sense to use them given how many more resources they take up compared to scanning a QR code, so vaccine passports make more sense for logistical reasons. It's literally right there in black and white.

@RedToothBrush

The effectiveness of AZ against omicron is bothering me.

Dh had az just before they decided to change the rules and not offer it to under 40s. So he can't get a booster.

But it also means that we have a bunch of people over 40 who had AZ. Many of whom cant get booking for boosters still.

Yes, he can. He can get a Pfizer or Moderna booster like everyone else who had AZ.

@RedToothBrush where are you? I'm in London and just got my booster at guys hospital despite being just 40 (AZ for first dose) and i know under 40s can jabs there too. My SIL aged 36 also just got booster jab booked for Sunday in Sheffield (she also had AZ before they changed the guidance). Does seem a bit inconsistent around the country tho

[quote Greyowl32]@megustalacerveza you're talking out of your backside which is a common theme for uneducated people with no grasp on mortality statistics regarding covid. Statistically if 10,000 people at this so called "event" were under 60, then the grand total of none would die vacicnated or unvaccinated if they contracted covid- there would be a greater chance of at least one of them being killed in a road traffic accident that calendar year.

Your santimonious rambling covid preacings which resembled terrified hysteria are contributing to a climate of fear too stupid to realise the actual risk covid presents to 99.9 percent of the population. If you want to prevent all deaths, stay in , don't eat anything more risky than bread and water and join a nunnery[/quote]
Haha, you do amuse me.

You know covid is a virus, yes? That viruses spread?

Reducing the chances of people at any one event being positive reduces the chances that they'll go home and pass it to their granny and so on and so forth. You know, like how covid has always spread, from the very beginning? It's not about preventing the spread, it's about reducing it. Three people being positive without knowing it is a hell of a lot better than thirty people being positive without knowing it. Because those thirty people are going to spread it onto many more people than three would. Maybe do some reading about exponential spread, since the entire concept seems to be beyond you, despite how 'educated you are (lol).

I don't want to prevent all deaths and I definitely don't want to stay in. I want to go on holiday, go out, get on with my life, but unfortunately it looks like I'll be waiting much longer than I hoped thanks to the many people who can't understand basic maths and logic.

When is booking opening up for under 40s?

When it does open, I suppose it would be too difficult logistically to prioritise those who had AZ?

He's still in a better position than the unvaccinated. I understand your concern but hope that's some reassurance?

Hopefully he'll be able to get his booster soon.

@Tealightsandd

When is booking opening up for under 40s?

When it does open, I suppose it would be too difficult logistically to prioritise those who had AZ?

He's still in a better position than the unvaccinated. I understand your concern but hope that's some reassurance?

Hopefully he'll be able to get his booster soon.

No idea where you live but under 40s can walk in in London now. That's how everyone I know is getting it. I think people who had AZ should definitely be prioritised but either way the wait shouldn't be that long.

@megustalacerveza it’s actually recommended that people take lfts before they mix in crowds, even if they’re vaccinated - have you not been doing that?:

www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/testing/regular-rapid-coronavirus-tests-if-you-do-not-have-symptoms/

You register the result and show the email on your phone so no different to showing a QR code on your phone really. It may not be 100% guarantee but, as discussed, vaccinated people can still be carrying the virus so, if you’re trying to reduce spread, as BJ said it makes more sense to have to show a negative test, even if you’re vaccinated.

[quote breadwidow]@RedToothBrush where are you? I'm in London and just got my booster at guys hospital despite being just 40 (AZ for first dose) and i know under 40s can jabs there too. My SIL aged 36 also just got booster jab booked for Sunday in Sheffield (she also had AZ before they changed the guidance). Does seem a bit inconsistent around the country tho [/quote]
I don't know about Sheffield but assume in London there's possibly more availability (and perhaps need) for under 40s because of the much lower take up rates (London is the lowest in the UK by some way).

[quote breadwidow]@RedToothBrush where are you? I'm in London and just got my booster at guys hospital despite being just 40 (AZ for first dose) and i know under 40s can jabs there too. My SIL aged 36 also just got booster jab booked for Sunday in Sheffield (she also had AZ before they changed the guidance). Does seem a bit inconsistent around the country tho [/quote]
North West. Ive been looking at local walk ins. None doing under 40s yet that i can see.

Yes, he can. He can get a Pfizer or Moderna booster like everyone else who had AZ

You haven't understood what i meant. He had AZ which is not effective against omicron. But he cannot get a booster yet either. Pfizer and Moderna both have at least some effictiveness.

So he's caught in a situation with low effectiveness but no way yet to change that. Others his age who had pfizer or moderna should have some protection and those over 40 can get a booster. He cant.

This troubles me.

[quote bumbleymummy]@megustalacerveza it’s actually recommended that people take lfts before they mix in crowds, even if they’re vaccinated - have you not been doing that?:

www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/testing/regular-rapid-coronavirus-tests-if-you-do-not-have-symptoms/

You register the result and show the email on your phone so no different to showing a QR code on your phone really. It may not be 100% guarantee but, as discussed, vaccinated people can still be carrying the virus so, if you’re trying to reduce spread, as BJ said it makes more sense to have to show a negative test, even if you’re vaccinated.[/quote]
No, it doesn't make more sense. Unvaccinated people are still at much higher risk of actually getting sick if they get covid, and they are also at higher risk of catching it and spreading it further than vaccinated people. LFTs are so unreliable that they're going to miss lots of cases. If everyone is vaccinated, it matters far less if a few positive cases sneak into an event. One positive case may spread to 20 other people, compared to many, many more if most people weren't vaccinated. So the overall impact of that event on wider society and the health service is much worse.

I've already explained this but you seem determined to disregard it so I'm not sure what the point it. I'm not sure exactly what you seem to have such a problem with. None of this is my opinion. It's basic science. The statistics are everywhere for you to check.

@Greyowl32 I didn't say that?! I'm well aware everyone will get covid, most likely.

You don't seem to be able to wrap your brain around the fact that this is an acute situation. It's not about individual risk. It's about the situation as a whole. If too many people get sick at once, the NHS will collapse. And we'll go into a lockdown. It's that simple, and I'm not sure what's so hard to comprehend.

You're so obsessive with your little conspiracy theories that you're not even paying attention to what I'm saying. I don't want to 'hide away'. I want to get my life back. People like you are making that less and less likely, because instead of accepting the situation as it is, you want to pretend it's 2018 again. And you've got the nerve to call ME deluded.

@RedToothBrush What have I not understood? He can get a Pfizer or Moderna booster, like I said. There are walk ins all over the country. I went to one myself and was in exactly the same situation of having 2 x AZ. You walk in and say 'I'd like a booster, please' and you get a booster.

@Greyowl32 its not all about spreading it though is it ?
Good for you but you not testing if you had symptoms would be pretty irresponsible to others who may not be so lucky

The evidence is to examine countries with exceptionally high vaccination rates such as Gibraltar and Israel... how are they getting on? The answer you are looking for is infections are through the roof despite being jabbed continually with vaccine passports for all citizens.

Hmmm. But how are their hospitalisations?

Btw, whilst Gibraltar has a very high vaccine take-up rate, Israel's is lower.