Boris Johnson set to approve new Plan B Covid restrictions

[WineGetsMeThroughIt]

Just been announced. But what will this entail I wonder. 🤔

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-boris-johnson-minded-to-move-to-plan-b-of-rules-this-week-sky-news-understands-12489880

@Lostinacloud oh do please educate me more oh wise parent. I had no idea my life might change with a child. What a revelation 🙄

@IfNot clearly the vaccine had nothing to do with it. The vaccine cannot affect fertility. There is no mechanism. I am pointing out that there are stories both ways. It’s coincidence if something happens to your fertility after the vaccine.

Note: periods have nothing to do with fertility.

Why “ clearly” if many many women are reporting weird hormonal changes??

@IfNot

No the vaccine did not mess with my hormones at all. The vaccine had no impact on fertility and no viable mechanism through which it can effect fertility. You said- 6 rounds of IVF, zero pregnancies, 2 vaccines- 2months pregnant? So you are implying that the vaccines had something to do with that?

That's not how her post reads at all. She is saying the exact opposite.

@IfNot

Why “ clearly” if many many women are reporting weird hormonal changes??

@IfNot ‘clearly’ because - science! Not anecdotes

No thanks, I have no inclination to offer advice to people trying to insult me on a parenting forum.

But it isn’t the opposite! It’s very odd, 6 rounds of IVF then vaccines and boom, pregnant. It’s a story that is being reported anecdotally across the country, so why is it automatically not connected?

Yes science would be nice wouldn’t it, but they don’t seem to be interested in studying the effects of this vaccine on women! So anecdote is all we have!

@Lostinacloud

No thanks, I have no inclination to offer advice to people trying to insult me on a parenting forum.

But I really wanted to know if being a parent would just turn me against science or also make me believe covid is a global conspiracy designed to implement global id? Which comes directly from child birth?

@IfNot

But it isn’t the opposite! It’s very odd, 6 rounds of IVF then vaccines and boom, pregnant. It’s a story that is being reported anecdotally across the country, so why is it automatically not connected?

It’s really not odd. This is the problem with people going on anecdotes. This is why they didn’t want women getting the vaccine in the first trimester - as one in four pregnancies end in miscarriage and they didn’t want women believing their miscarriage was caused by the vaccine as it’s inevitable large number of women would say well I got the vaccine then I had a miscarriage when the two aren’t related.

But I really wanted to know if being a parent would just turn me against science or also make me believe covid is a global conspiracy designed to implement global id? Which comes directly from child birth?
Again, that just makes you sound stupid, when you equate quite reasonable concern about possible effects of a new vaccine with being a conspiracy nut. You can be concern about widely reported side effects without being anti vaccine or believing in conspiracy theories.

And you can’t talk about “ Science” if data to do the science is not being collected and studied!

@IfNot

But I really wanted to know if being a parent would just turn me against science or also make me believe covid is a global conspiracy designed to implement global id? Which comes directly from child birth? Again, that just makes you sound stupid, when you equate quite reasonable concern about possible effects of a new vaccine with being a conspiracy nut. You can be concern about widely reported side effects without being anti vaccine or believing in conspiracy theories.

Sorry that was from the another thread currently going where the same poster said covid and vaccine passports and restrictions are designed to lock down people until a global id is implemented.

@IfNot

And you can’t talk about “ Science” if data to do the science is not being collected and studied!

There is no viable mechanism through which the vaccine can affect fertility.

@IfNot

But it isn’t the opposite! It’s very odd, 6 rounds of IVF then vaccines and boom, pregnant. It’s a story that is being reported anecdotally across the country, so why is it automatically not connected?

It isn't odd. It has happened to thousands and thousands of women. Some have tried for over a decade and then BAM! pregnant. All without having any type of vaccine!

I am happy to wear my mask as I whip around a supermarket or sit in a theatre but I can't see the sense of it when I'm mixing with a lot of maskless people every day at work no ventilation.

Quite sincerely, I read a lot of MN, and I may be falling victim to conspiracy theories, but I am starting to think there are a shedload of "destabilisers" here, manipulating any topic that could be vaguely regarded as political. Obviously, I can't prove anything (and I probably sound equally deranged) but the complete irrationality of many of the arguments is beyond me.

[quote Lostinacloud]@Beachcomber I agree, it’s divisive and feels very oppressive in France at the moment. There isn’t even a positive effect on cases and hospitalisations to at least try to justify the measures in place.

And I think you and I can both testify to the fact that not only do vaccine passports do nothing to dampen the epidemic but they also don’t buy you your life back either. We are all still in masks, plastic screens everywhere, one way systems, announcements in the stations every few minutes reminding us to stay away from each other and all of our children now wear masks for outdoor playtime and PE. From friday nightclubs close for 4 weeks and you won’t be allowed to sing or dance in bars or restaurants. It would almost be funny if it wasn’t so fucking mental that we have come to accept this as a reasonable reaction to what is for most à cold virus.

People of the uk be aware, vaccine passports really are a NOT a great introduction to the “toolbox” for dealing with the pandemic and will do absolutely nothing to restore normal life. In fact they will just mean that you will need the permission of the government to go out to eat as a family. Permission is only given if you have met their ever changing criteria.

For example, in July when this horrific device was introduced, there was no mention of needing multiple vaccines in order to keep it valid. Equally anyone who wished not to be vaccinated was not told that soon a covid test would only be valid for 24hrs and cost them €25 a time. What’s next?[/quote]
Yup. Totally agree @Lostinacloud

Like you said, we are living in what the future holds for the UK if people do not resist.

And yes, the criteria of what is "acceptable" keeps changing.

I can't quite believe that 18 year olds are now required to be triple vaccinated in order to go to a restaurant or a library

So no, neither mass vaccination nor covid passports have given us back anything like normality.

Next step is mandatory vaccination IMO. Even though it won't work to contain the virus.

Someone can say the vaccine made me infertile. I can say it made me fertile. Neither are true. The vaccine has nothing to do with it.

But you don't know though - you can't say either way until a study has been done specifically on it.

@650above

I live in France, my life is full of joy and I feel sad for Lost that these small sacrifices for public health make her so unhappy.

My kids wear masks and have had uninterrupted schooling, for which I am extremely grateful, as are they. No problems with GP or hospital appointments.

Nor do I accept her assertion that the restrictions had no effect - France has had a fraction of the UK cases and deaths since "freedom day" and the lifting of all restrictions. Interesting that it is only now that France is in a surge that it is again of such interest on MN - it has been ignored for months when cases were low. The vaccine passport has also been extremely helpful in pushing up the % getting vaccinated and you only have to look at the appointments after each announcement to see it had a huge effect on pushing people over the line.

We need as many people as possible vaccinated, yes with three doses, and if some of them have to be nudged, I'm ok with that. And why should I pay for their testing when they couldn't be bothered doing anything to protect me and my family - I can see from Lost's comments that she's not a fan of masks and she thinks she should be able to go where she want, with tests assumably paid for by others. So what exactly are people like her prepared to do to help get us out of this? If the answer is just get on with it and let the weak die, I'm very glad I live in a country where that is not an acceptable policy.

Finally, the reason "they" didn't tell us about the 3rd dose was that "they" didn't know. It's not some big conspiracy, it is a fast moving pandemic.

I'm in France too.

And I'll tell you what I have done to help. I've had covid. I was bloody ill with it too.

And I recently tested my antibody level and it is high.

But in about 3 weeks time I will lose my "recovery" passe sanitiare and my movements will be restricted even though I am less likely to be carrying the virus than a covid naive vaccinated person.

It's bullshit.

But you know what, my life is full of joy too. I'm just less obedient and therefore free than you.

@vickyp0llard

Someone can say the vaccine made me infertile. I can say it made me fertile. Neither are true. The vaccine has nothing to do with it.

But you don't know though - you can't say either way until a study has been done specifically on it.

www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n509

The guidance,1 published by the Association of Reproductive and Clinical Scientists and the British Fertility Society, comes amid concerns that misinformation that has been circulating online about covid-19 vaccines and fertility may be putting some women off having the vaccine.

“There is absolutely no evidence, and no theoretical reason, that any of the vaccines can affect the fertility of women or men,”

though it's good that there are ongoing studies checking this out, as this has been such a red herring for people.

“There is absolutely no evidence, and no theoretical reason, that any of the vaccines can affect the fertility of women or men,”

There is no evidence because any such evidence hasn't had a chance to be fully collected yet - drugs get studied for years after they are released in Phase 4 trials, as there is only so much data they can collect in Phase 3. Usually in Phase 3 trials you are not allowed to test on pregnant women. Many drugs have been recalled after years on the market, due to side effects that only become evident later. So "there is no evidence that there is an effect" isn't really as reassuring a statement as "evidence has shown that there is no effect".

@IfNot

Why “ clearly” if many many women are reporting weird hormonal changes??

Correlation is not causation

Science basics.

No correlation is not causation but until they have properly studied WHY so many women have reported menstrual changes ( and many many more HAVEN’T reported officially but are experiencing them) they won’t know causation. Other vaccinations and diseases can cause menstrual changes, but currently most of the medical studies are specifically on fertility( male and female) and pregnancy not menstrual disruption or post menopausal bleeding. It could be temporary, it could be harmless, but the point is we just don’t know yet.

No one announces an inquiry into something that didn't happen nor do you resign your job over a mickey take mock up Q&A of a party that never took place.

You do if you are the sacrificial lamb.