65% of hospitalisations are vaccinated.

[Twotone]

fullfact.org/health/economist-vaccination-status/?s=09

@supermoonrising - absolutely. It needs to be possible to have a sensible, open discussion about relative risks (some as yet unknown), so people can make truly informed decisions. For some people (best examples being older people, those with health conditions and those who are overweight), the risk-benefit balance is quite clearly in favour of vaccines; for others (best example being young kids), it's clearly in favour of waiting. How have we lost the ability to openly discuss this without mud-slinging - in particular the grey areas in the middle where the calculations are much less clear?

@EdgeOfTheSky, I agree completely. Where is the money/effort going into helping people to lose weight, to exercise, to manage their chronic health conditions, to correct any vitamin deficiencies? This would save lives not just from Covid, but from all causes (and, as we know, all-cause, non-Covid, mortality is alarmingly up). If anyway, we've had the opposite - gyms closing, activity discouraged, stress increased, standard medical care halted... The jabs are great (for many people), but why is this the ONLY preventative thing substantial money and effort is going into? Something has gone very badly awry, and it's hard to avoid the conclusion that it has a lot to do with profits.

*if anything

Say you have 1000 people and 950 are vaccinated. And say 10% of the unvaccinated group get Covid, but only 1% of the vaccinated group do. You will have 5 unvaccinated Covid patients and 10 vaccinated ones, even though the infection rate in the unvaccinated group is 10 times higher.

Excellent,thank you

[quote Squleamish]@supermoonrising - absolutely. It needs to be possible to have a sensible, open discussion about relative risks (some as yet unknown), so people can make truly informed decisions. For some people (best examples being older people, those with health conditions and those who are overweight), the risk-benefit balance is quite clearly in favour of vaccines; for others (best example being young kids), it's clearly in favour of waiting. How have we lost the ability to openly discuss this without mud-slinging - in particular the grey areas in the middle where the calculations are much less clear?

@EdgeOfTheSky, I agree completely. Where is the money/effort going into helping people to lose weight, to exercise, to manage their chronic health conditions, to correct any vitamin deficiencies? This would save lives not just from Covid, but from all causes (and, as we know, all-cause, non-Covid, mortality is alarmingly up). If anyway, we've had the opposite - gyms closing, activity discouraged, stress increased, standard medical care halted... The jabs are great (for many people), but why is this the ONLY preventative thing substantial money and effort is going into? Something has gone very badly awry, and it's hard to avoid the conclusion that it has a lot to do with profits.[/quote]
Totally agree!

Over 80% of people in icu are overweight/obese. Curious to hear your thoughts.

My thoughts are, didn't you just tell me this thread is about hospitals and not ICUs? And also, you do seem rather obsessed with weight.

@supermoonrising - I also think the push for kids (and arguably younger, healthy people) to be jabbed discourages some older people from getting vaccinated, so may cause deaths this way, too. I recently met an overweight man with diabetes in his 70s who doesn't want to get vaccinated. He said that when they started to push for his teenage grandkids to get the jab, he decided for once and for all that he wasn't going to get it, because this made him think the pressure was so clearly not about health. Although I wish he'd get the vaccine, I can actually see where he's coming from about this - if teenagers are getting as much pressure to get jabbed as he is, how is he meant to take the pressure seriously?

Where is the money/effort going into helping people to lose weight, to exercise

They're both massive industries.

@supermoonrising under twelves vaccinations is a sticking point for me I’ll admit (I have a 6yo). I sway between wanting it rolled out and thinking it’s not necessary. Recent, largely unverified or examined, reports of omicron affecting children more severely definitely caught my attention. Plus lived experience of watching covid go through school and families highlights to me the need to do ‘something’ about that particular pool of infection. I’m still slightly aghast that policy has been for direct contacts (I.e. household members) are free to attend school and the policy of allowing children identified as close contacts back to school whilst waiting for PCR results. It’s been an excruciating month just gone for us of a new child in her class being diagnosed every few days as it’s clear the path it’s taking could have been prevented. The goal of keeping kids in school above all else isn’t without its own pitfalls and problems and I suspect that there are better ways, but unpopular, to manage schools.

By and large I support vaccinations generally and would probably take up the covid one if my dc was offered it in the near future but it wouldn’t be done lightly.

@milkyaqua well yes, none of know how we’ll react to anything. Some otherwise healthy people are hospitalised every year with various viruses that most people have no ill effects from. All we can really work on is statistics to estimate our general risk and then decide whether we’re happy with that risk or not. Some people will be and some people won’t. People are usually allowed to make their own decisions about risk.

@ErrolTheDragon

Where is the money/effort going into helping people to lose weight, to exercise

They're both massive industries.

Yes, but how much effort and cash from government has gone into promoting and enabling these things since the pandemic (which has further highlighted the dire need). In comparison to the billions which have been spent on test and trace, vaccines, etc.? I'm not saying these latter things aren't important, but many lives could be saved by investing in the former.

Yes, but how much effort and cash from government has gone into promoting and enabling these things since the pandemic (which has further highlighted the dire need). In comparison to the billions which have been spent on test and trace, vaccines, etc.? I'm not saying these latter things aren't important, but many lives could be saved by investing in the former.

Government know this would be political suicide. You can see from whenever anyone tries to discuss it on here - the public won't accept that they need to do something difficult and take responsibility for their own health.

@milkyaqua

Over 80% of people in icu are overweight/obese. Curious to hear your thoughts.

My thoughts are, didn't you just tell me this thread is about hospitals and not ICUs? And also, you do seem rather obsessed with weight.

To be honest I think the country needs to be obsessed with weight. It's an enormous crisis.

It is not the only reason a person struggles with a Covid infection, however.

@serengtisprinter

Well hopefully the threads after threads about the unvaccinated clogging up beds will stop now.

RTFT, mate.

@Gearedtoyou good point.

I have a cousin in his 50s who smokes, is obese, has pre-diabetes, advanced gum disease (another lesser-known risk factor) and high blood pressure, and drives to the corner shop as it feels too far for him to walk. He has been tripled jabbed, which is great, so his risk of dying of Covid is low. But the jabs won't really have reduced his all-cause mortality risk. In fact, to be honest, they seem to have removed any sense that there's anything risky about his lifestyle. I really worry about him.

Hi @milkyaqua yes, because I was replying to a pp who was talking about unvaccinated people in icu. The thread title is clearly referring to hospitals in general. My post that you quoted is referring to hospitals in general - and yet you are trying to shift it over to icu again. There’s already an entire thread discussing those figures. Why am I ‘obsessed by weight’ if I’m discussing a disproportionate group in ICU? Are people ‘obsessed with unvaccinated people’ if they discuss the number of unvaccinated people in icu?

@LostForIdeas “ Also by saying that it’s only unvaccinated people who end up in hospital/ICU, we are constantly reinforcing this idea that if you are vaccinated, you are safe and can have more risky behaviours.”

Good point.

@ichundich stats are stats - it’s not trying to ‘minimise’ anything. It’s stating facts. And the fact that you think it is ‘fat shaming’ to talk about a higher risk with higher BMI just highlights why it probably isn’t as widely talked about as it should be. ‘Political correctness’ over health.

I agree @EdgeOfTheSky the focus seems to have shifted but I think now we know more it needs to shift back. The vaccine isn’t a ‘magic bullet’.people should really look at lifestyle changes too - not just for COVID but to reduce pressure on the nhs in the future too.

There should definitely be more focus on improving underlying health. Not just diet and exercise, but education too.
We now know that diabetes doesn’t have to be a lifelong illness. Many people have managed to take control of it through diet.
We know the importance of vitamins such as D and C to help keep our immune system functioning well.
We need to help people manage their stress and invest some of their precious time to looking after their mental and physical wellbeing.
As a society we are very unhealthy and there should be investment into changing this.
We don’t focus on enough preventative measures in this country. Such things as yearly screening and blood tests for those over 40 would probably help our society to manage healthcare both on an individual and government level.

Add on top worrying reports of Pfizer outsourced companies sidelining inconvenient data in the trials

That was a problem for one trial. The weight of evidence from all the other trials and all the shots that have been given since roll out utterly dwarfs those issues. It's completely right that it's being investigated, and those responsible should have the book thrown at them. But it's not even close to invalidating the evidence, for there is so much from other sources

@Gearedtoyou “Government know this would be political suicide. You can see from whenever anyone tries to discuss it on here - the public won't accept that they need to do something difficult and take responsibility for their own health.”

I agree. Look at the above comment about ‘fat shaming’.

The thing about diet and exercise is that no-one else can do it for you.

Early last year, DH looked at his risk factors, lost quite a bit of weight and has been exercising consistently ever since. The information was all there, easily available and comprehensible.

Good for him @ErrolTheDragon.

But you'd have to remember that weight gain is a very complex issue, often involving hormal issues amongst others. It's not as simple as just 'eat better' and 'exercise more'

@LostForIdeas

Good for him *@ErrolTheDragon*.

But you'd have to remember that weight gain is a very complex issue, often involving hormal issues amongst others. It's not as simple as just 'eat better' and 'exercise more'

Yes, I know. He has some of those issues.

[quote Squleamish]@Gearedtoyou good point.

I have a cousin in his 50s who smokes, is obese, has pre-diabetes, advanced gum disease (another lesser-known risk factor) and high blood pressure, and drives to the corner shop as it feels too far for him to walk. He has been tripled jabbed, which is great, so his risk of dying of Covid is low. But the jabs won't really have reduced his all-cause mortality risk. In fact, to be honest, they seem to have removed any sense that there's anything risky about his lifestyle. I really worry about him.[/quote]
Yes it's like people think keeping up with vaccinations will, in an effort free way, improve their overall health. I have a similar friend - 50 years old, extremely overweight, won't exercise, won't eat fruit and veg, drinks fairly heavily. When I had Covid he was convinced the vaccine had saved my life, and would do the same for him. Well yes it might help you to not die from Covid, but there's an array of other interesting conditions to look forward to if you don't change your lifestyle.

It's an utter blind spot.

@DayKay, I agree with you biut I asctually thnk the ver first thing we should do is combat the loneliness in our society.

there has been some rally interesting trials around that and they found that having a system in place to combat loneliness (eg groups people can attend to, gardening etc...) see a decrease of visits to the GP, visits to A&E, reduction of medication prescribed etc etc

I personally believe it's out society that is making us ill atm before the food aspect, blood sugar regulation etc (All also very important too btw)

My post that you quoted is referring to hospitals in general - and yet you are trying to shift it over to icu again.

I am not trying to shift it over to ICU! I am pointing out the oddness of you posting about ICU ("Over 80% of people in icu are overweight/obese") and then telling me what I linked was irrelevant because it wasn't just about covid hospitalisations but ICUs!