65% of hospitalisations are vaccinated.

[Twotone]

fullfact.org/health/economist-vaccination-status/?s=09

Overweight/obese in icu data - These are published weekly

Elderly patients - www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/12/05/around-10000-hospital-beds-occupied-elderly-patients-ready-go/

[quote user53782991]@bumbleymummy

Over 80% of people in icu are overweight/obese. Curious to hear your thoughts.

Could you post your source please? Same with the below:

What is currently causing massive problems in hospitals is not being able to discharge recovered elderly patients because there’s nowhere for them to go.

Thanks[/quote]
It has been continuously reported about bed blocking all over the country for weeks due to shortage of care staff
Just google www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2021-10-14/nhs-plea-as-care-crisis-sees-200-hospital-beds-blocked-in-cornwall
www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/local-news/sheffield-hospital-patients-being-treated-22261569
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bed-blocking-soars-as-care-homes-struggle-jnpl33d20
www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/cornwall-150-hospital-beds-blocked-5896080
careappointments.com/care-news/scotland/165861/bed-blocking-in-scottish-hospitals-returns-to-pre-pandemic-level-figures-show/

Well.. it'd certainly be great if fewer people were obese. Everyone knows there are multiple health risks, and many would like to lose it just for looks. But it's hard and slow to do. And there's no fix for old age.

Whereas vaccination is quick and easy. If as many people as possible were vaccinated there would be fewer completely unnecessary people in hospital in general and ICUs in particular.

Well, as I said, perhaps there should be a more targeted campaign to encourage people with higher BMIs to be vaccinated by explaining that they are still at higher risk - even if they are young. I don’t think we can really group all unvaccinated people together. An unvaccinated 70 year old/unvaccinated obese person/unvaccinated person with underlying health condition is more at risk than an unvaccinated healthy 20 year old etc.

I don’t think we can really group all unvaccinated people together.

Indeed - or vaccinated either, which is exactly what the misleading percentage in the title of this OP does.

Yep. So can we stop saying that hospitals are ‘being overwhelmed by unvaccinated people’ now please?

But hospital ICUs are worldwide being overwhelmed by unvaccinated people.

And vaccinated people can in a small minority of cases require ICU treatment from a breakthrough infection.

As someone who prides themselves on 'asking the uncomfortable questions' you don't seem able to hold two pieces of information in your head at the same time.

www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-07/covid-rips-through-vaccinated-school-reunion/100676556

In September, the CDC estimated unvaccinated people were nearly six times more likely to become infected with COVID-19 and 14 times more likely to die from it.

"Breakthrough infections are increasing all over the world where you have more vaccination and you have high transmission, particularly of the Delta virus," said Robert Bollinger, a professor of infectious diseases at Johns Hopkins University.

"Those who get significantly ill from breakthrough infections, those who are hospitalised and unfortunately die, they tend to be people who are older, people that are immunocompromised, people that have multiple other comorbidity health conditions."

Still, Dr Bollinger said the chances of dying from COVID-19 while vaccinated are extremely small.

@LookslovelyinSpringtime

What about smokers and alcoholics ? Funny how people are not being forced to stop smoking and drinking.

I'm sure many addicts would happily go for a jab or 2 if it would help them stop. Its almost like its not the same thing.

Because 8 in 10 adults are vaccinated

So ofcourse there are vaccinated people in hospital 🙈

@bumbleymummy

Well, as I said, perhaps there should be a more targeted campaign to encourage people with higher BMIs to be vaccinated by explaining that they are still at higher risk - even if they are young. I don’t think we can really group all unvaccinated people together. An unvaccinated 70 year old/unvaccinated obese person/unvaccinated person with underlying health condition is more at risk than an unvaccinated healthy 20 year old etc.

They've been clear of the heightened risk with a high BMI, and those who had their weight recorded at the doctors were offered vaccines as one of the earlier groups. What is your point though?

Just over 80% are double jabbed

They make up 65% of admissions.

This is good news! The jab works

@milkyaqua This thread is about hospital in general not ICU specifically, like the other thread. Perhaps you are getting threads confused?

Dr Bollinger said the chances of dying from COVID-19 while vaccinated are extremely small

That really does depend on age/comorbidities. A vaccinated elderly person is still more at risk than an unvaccinated healthy 30 year old.

It’s strange that so many people have read the op as ‘vaccines don’t work’. I don’t think she’s trying to say that at all.

@Cattipuss I don’t think there has been that much focus on the BMI risk at all actually. There have been constant reports about ‘otherwise healthy people’ being seriously ill when photos show them as extremely overweight. My point is that a more targeted campaign could increase uptake in that at risk group. I did state that in the post you quoted.

People who cannot respond well or at all to vaccination will potentially be in the fully vaccinated group too so that will skew the figures.

@SexTrainGlue

Just over 80% are double jabbed

They make up 65% of admissions.

This is good news! The jab works

Conversely the 20% unvaccinated make up 45% of hospital admissions.

No doubt vaccines are working,

A vaccinated elderly person is still more at risk than an unvaccinated healthy 30 year old.

Well, yes, statistically speaking and in general. But nobody knows how their body/immune system will react at any given time.

Here's a healthy young slim (unvaccinated) man who was in his 20s, no comorbidities, on ECMO and waiting for a double lung transplant. Incredibly sad.

www.shreveporttimes.com/story/news/2021/11/08/tulane-student-kyle-park-battling-covid-candidate-new-lungs/6330188001/

video.wixstatic.com/video/bdb19a_9315b70bf63744819b5527a6c73b04c5/360p/mp4/file.mp4

It's not just the old and obese; multiple hospitals and their ICUs report that now they are treating much younger patients, all unvaxxed.

That’s a rather inflammatory title OP hmm the article goes on to say….

This is hilarious. It's a statistic - a seemingly accurate one, for a change. It doesn't mean the jabs don't work, as people have said. But it's amazing that this statistic is seen as inflammatory when other threads (the "90%..." one, for example) with actively wrong stats are seen as fine because they promote the jabs. Mad world.

@Cattipuss I don’t think there has been that much focus on the BMI risk at all actually. There have been constant reports about ‘otherwise healthy people’ being seriously ill when photos show them as extremely overweight. My point is that a more targeted campaign could increase uptake in that at risk group. I did state that in the post you quoted.

@bumbleymummy you crazy antivaxxer, you....

Yep, the data released by ONS and PHE is incomplete, non-transparent, and poorly categorised. I want to believe good stuff about the jabs - really, I do - but the systematic obfuscation of data makes it hard to conclude anything, really.

Tbh I wish they would stop going ink and in about unvaccinated people filling hospitals.
Because as that article is saying this is not the case!!

If all the unvaccinated people were vaccinated, we would have less people in hospital but we would still have some and we would still have some deaths.

Also by saying that it’s only unvaccinated people who end up in hospital/ICU, we are constantly reinforcing this idea that if you are vaccinated, you are safe and can have more risky behaviours. Because… you won’t end up in hospital right?
I think that’s the wrong attitude and it would be time to start actually saying loud and clear that yes vaccines works. Being vaccinated protect you from dying and you have less chances of needing hospital treatment.
But it doesn’t mean you will NOT end up in hospital and can afford not to be careful…

@Squleamish

That’s a rather inflammatory title OP hmm the article goes on to say….

This is hilarious. It's a statistic - a seemingly accurate one, for a change. It doesn't mean the jabs don't work, as people have said. But it's amazing that this statistic is seen as inflammatory when other threads (the "90%..." one, for example) with actively wrong stats are seen as fine because they promote the jabs. Mad world.

I agree there.

Yes there is a lot of conspiracy theories about the vaccine etc…
But tbf, the pro vaccines are not much better at refusing to accept statistics that don’t fit their world view either. Politics don’t help either tbf.

@SexTrainGlue
Just over 80% are double jabbed
They make up 65% of admissions.
This is good news! The jab works

I am pro vaccination - at least for adults and probably teenagers. Clearly it is helping cut national hospitalisation rates (ie freeing up beds for other patients vital work) as well providing some level of protection for vulnerable adults.

However, I think there is a point to be made that - as vaccines go - these ones are clearly pretty poor. Add on top worrying reports of Pfizer outsourced companies sidelining inconvenient data in the trials, occasional heart complications, and the obvious lack of long term effect data, and I think there are questions to be discussed. Particularly regarding whether younger children, 5-11m who are statistically only at tiny risk from this virus ought to be receiving this moderately effective vaccine and presumably subsequent biannual boosters.

[quote bumbleymummy]@milkyaqua This thread is about hospital in general not ICU specifically, like the other thread. Perhaps you are getting threads confused?

Dr Bollinger said the chances of dying from COVID-19 while vaccinated are extremely small

That really does depend on age/comorbidities. A vaccinated elderly person is still more at risk than an unvaccinated healthy 30 year old.

It’s strange that so many people have read the op as ‘vaccines don’t work’. I don’t think she’s trying to say that at all.

@Cattipuss I don’t think there has been that much focus on the BMI risk at all actually. There have been constant reports about ‘otherwise healthy people’ being seriously ill when photos show them as extremely overweight. My point is that a more targeted campaign could increase uptake in that at risk group. I did state that in the post you quoted.[/quote]
Young people are less at risk from severe Covid, but there still is a risk, including of death. Why are you trying to minimise it? And why do you keep fatshaming in every other post? We all know that being overweight can lead to health issues. Besides many people consider themselves 'young' when they're not.

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/nov/30/life-tragic-death-john-eyers-fitness-fanatic-who-refused-covid-vaccine

@Squleamish
Exactly. There are pros and cons to this vaccine. While I think the pros certainly outweigh the cons for the adult population, I am not sure we should be starting young children 5-11 on presumably a lifelong course of this only moderately effective vaccine (against a virus with quite extreme endless mutations). A vaccine with occasional but severe side effects for an unlucky few, and obviously with no long term safety data available. Young children are at a tiny risk - comparable to a traffic accident. Why not wait until something more effective (and safer) is available?

by saying that it’s only unvaccinated people who end up in hospital/ICU, we are constantly reinforcing this idea that if you are vaccinated, you are safe and can have more risky behaviours. Because… you won’t end up in hospital right?

I genuinely haven’t met anyone irl or registered anyone online who is vaccinated and believes this. Generally I think people accept that there’s a massive reduction in risk of transmission, illness and death but it’s not a 100% protection.

I’d go so far as to say this is a sentiment I see expressed by people who are unvaccinated, largely by choice. Truth is there is unlikely to ever be a vaccine that is 100% sterilising of covid, there are very few vaccines for any illness that can claim that particular power, but degrees of effectiveness are what can replace more stringent measures and I think people who decide to get the vaccine by and large understand that alongside the time pressures involved in trying to achieve the best results we can through vaccinations.

I don’t think there has been that much focus on the BMI risk at all actually. There have been constant reports about ‘otherwise healthy people’ being seriously ill when photos show them as extremely overweight. My point is that a more targeted campaign could increase uptake in that at risk group

In the spring of 2020 it was being widely reported that being overweight increased the risk of hospitalisation and death. It precipitated my own adoption of a healthier eating habit with significant weight loss. I just thought it was the one risk factor I could change.

Since the vaccine roll out the message and focus has been very much on the importance of jabs rather than reducing other risks.

@Cornettoninja
and I think people who decide to get the vaccine by and large understand that alongside the time pressures involved in trying to achieve the best results we can through vaccinations

I think time pressure is the key point here. Personal protection aside I think it’s morally preferable for all adults who can get it to get vaccinated. I’m not sure we should be applying the “time pressure” theory to young kids, though. All protestations to the contrary aside, it is clear that these vaccines were rushed through - necessarily of course - to a certain extent. The accusations made in the British Medical Journal were detailed and extremely serious but have received scant attention from MSM.