65% of hospitalisations are vaccinated.

[Twotone]

fullfact.org/health/economist-vaccination-status/?s=09

@ErrolTheDragon true - and that's great new about your husband.

Let's say - as a thought experiment - billions had been spent on loads of really nice, well-kept swimming pools and free high-quality gyms and exercise classes locally, vitamins and veg boxes were provided/subsidised by the state, incentives were given for outdoor activities and parks were expanded and well maintained... elaborate the image as you wish.... do you reckon it would be easier for people to live more healthily? To be less dependent on pharmacological products to stay so?

This shit again. Honestly, stupidity can be so dangerous sometimes.

@GertrudeKerfuffle

I'll try again

I came on to post this!

[quote Squleamish]@ErrolTheDragon true - and that's great new about your husband.

Let's say - as a thought experiment - billions had been spent on loads of really nice, well-kept swimming pools and free high-quality gyms and exercise classes locally, vitamins and veg boxes were provided/subsidised by the state, incentives were given for outdoor activities and parks were expanded and well maintained... elaborate the image as you wish.... do you reckon it would be easier for people to live more healthily? To be less dependent on pharmacological products to stay so?[/quote]
I suspect that the benefits would be marginal. It would be great for people who'd very probably be doing some sort of activity anyway. I'm not sure it would tempt many off their sofas. Actually, I think the rise of zoom classes may be more helpful to many - I'm certainly finding it easier to do 2 Pilates classes a week now than when I was going out on a cold evening or fighting traffic to get to a studio.

I don’t think there has been that much focus on the BMI risk at all actually. There have been constant reports about ‘otherwise healthy people’ being seriously ill when photos show them as extremely overweight. My point is that a more targeted campaign could increase uptake in that at risk group. I did state that in the post you quoted

Really? Near enough from the outset of covid it was widely reported that weight was a vulnerability, and those in certain BMI ranges were offered the jab earlier and in high risk jobs prioritised for wfh etc- it doesn't feel like something that has been hidden or swept under the rug overall

@LostForIdeas loneliness is horrible and seriously impacts on wellbeing but I wonder how much of that is linked to stress? As a society, we barely get time to visit our relatives let alone talking to neighbours or joining groups and befriending people. Now with covid, it seems to have amplified the situation.

Even with the vaccines, underlying healthy is linked to how ill we get with covid. It’s is not going away yet so we should be prioritising our wellbeing.

I just love how the media are spinning this...

The context is though that the majority of the population has now had the vaccine (especially in the older age groups).

The vaccine reduces the severity of the illness but if you are an 85 year old with a lot of other health issues it might not keep you out of hospital.

This is not a validation of the people who are bleating about the vaccines not working...

@ElectraBlue

I just love how the media are spinning this...

The context is though that the majority of the population has now had the vaccine (especially in the older age groups).

The vaccine reduces the severity of the illness but if you are an 85 year old with a lot of other health issues it might not keep you out of hospital.

This is not a validation of the people who are bleating about the vaccines not working...

The ones most at risk from covid right from the beginning, have always been elderly, obese and underlying conditions. The ones currently at risk from hospitalisation are still elderly, obese and those with certain underlying conditions. Except now, many vulnerable people have had covid and/or the vaccine, or died so hospitalisation rates are lower.

@Squleamish

"I want to believe good stuff about the jabs - really, I do - but the systematic obfuscation of data makes it hard to conclude anything, really."

+++++

This is my concern, there is clear evidence, data to back it up and fact checks to show that vaccination greatly reduces your chances of hospitalisation and or death. Indeed the 65% figure being vaccinated does not reflect that amongst the elderly who are more likely to require hospitalisation or die the vaccination rate is much higher 90% plus.

However posts stating that 90% or 95% or 100% of ICU patients are unvaccinated based on reports of individual doctors without any actual data or fact checks, raises credibility questions and risks creating doubt or confusion. This in turn gives ammunition to those doubting the benefits of Covid vaccination which in turn will impact hospitalisation and death rates.

Sadly it seems a rational discussion on this point cannot be had for fear of being denounced as an anti vaxxer or conspiracy theorist.

@bumbleymummy

Why are you trying to deflect from the problem of anti-vaxxers by continually squealing about irrelevant (To this thread) BMI?

You came onto this thread claiming that the unvaccinated are not a problem and that is categorically untrue. You are being extremely disingenuous to suggest otherwise. The unvaccinated are undoubtedly clogging beds and this is a huge problem. Even the link that you yourself shared has a section highlighting this (see attached photo). Unless based on medical reasons, it is extremely selfish not to get vaccinated.

No-one is disputing that being overweight is a significant public health problem (and not just in Covid times) but as many are trying to point out to you, getting vaccinated is by far the best short term measure that can be taken to improve your chances against Covid and prevent hospitalisation, ICU and death.

Please stop with the misinformation.

Of course they are! As more people are vaccinated, the proportion of vaccinated people in hospital will increase.

However, the chances of recovery & less severe infection are greatly reduced. My mother-in-law and sister-in-law died of covid in January 2021 before they could be vaccinated. When our family caught covid-19 in September 2021, my husband ended up in hospital. However, as he had been double-vaccinated he required basic oxygen support and medication only, and recovered well. THIS IS THE POINT OF VACCINATION! You may still contract the virus ad get ill, but your odds of good recovery are much greater. One of the first questions they asked him at the hospital was whether he had been vaccinated, as the medical staff know that it makes a positive difference to likely outcome.

I don't view his admission to hospital after vaccination as a vaccine failure, but rather as vaccine success, as his genetics seem to make his family vulnerable to covid-19, but the vaccine resulted in a good outcome, with no long-term harm. Without the vaccine I think he could easily have died, leaving me & our four children bereft.

I would encourage everyone to be vaccinated unless they have health conditions that make it inadvisable. Vaccination doesn't solve everything, but it greatly improves your odds.

@Scautish why do you think it is irrelevant? Aren’t we talking about certain groups putting strain on the nhs? If there are a number of unvaccinated people with high BMIs in hospital/ICU then a campaign that highlights their risk and encourages uptake in that group would be beneficial and could reduce hospital numbers. Why are you against that?

I didn’t claim that they were not a problem btw. I said that they weren’t ‘overwhelming hospitals’ because if 65% of patients in hospital are vaccinated then why are we focussing on the minority rather than on the issues that have hospitalised/prevented discharge of the vaccinated patients who are in the majority?

There is no misinformation in any of my posts.

And just to note, he is a healthy man in his fifties, not overweight and with no underlying health issues. His main risk factor was his ethnicity & genetics (South Asian).

And fwiw, I think the solution is to prioritise boosters which are already reducing hospitalisation in the elderly and sort out the community care issue so that recovered patients can be safely discharged.

why are we focussing on the minority rather than on the issues that have hospitalised/prevented discharge of the vaccinated patients who are in the majority?

Because it's quick and easy. Dealing with the other issues is much less tractable.

I think a targeted campaign highlighting the risk of high BMI would actually be a quick way to encourage uptake in one of the most at risk subsets of the unvaccinated.

It’s just, as a pp pointed out ‘unpalatable’ because it’s seen as ‘fat-shaming’.

@bumbleymummy

I think a targeted campaign highlighting the risk of high BMI would actually be a quick way to encourage uptake in one of the most at risk subsets of the unvaccinated.

You may be right. Though at this point surely there can't be many unaware of the link to BMI? Would the psychology work? - some people may just dig their heels in harder and feel they're being blamed and shamed.

X-post. My guess is that most overweight people who want a medicinal fix rather than putting in the considerable and possibly in achievable effort to try lose weight will have already had their shots.

@ErrolTheDragon

X-post. My guess is that most overweight people who want a medicinal fix rather than putting in the considerable and possibly in achievable effort to try lose weight will have already had their shots.

We are talking about obese people here They are not going to loose all the weight they need to be a healthy BMI in two weeks.

The reason why it’s easier to concentrate on vaccines is because it’s quick. It would take a year or more for the same obese people to loose that much weight (that is if they actually keep it up too)

Besides saying it’s achievable with some effort is very dismissive.
Most people who are obese will have tried and failed to loose weight before. Actually it’s the yo-yo dieting that often takes people there too.
If loosing weight was only a case of putting some effort into it, no one would be obese

Sorry that was a typo - should have been unachievable. I pretty much agree with what you are saying there.

The other side of that targeted coin is to enable a choice for those who are not at high risk. Like the millions of healthy people who have recovered from covid or who have a low risk as they are young and/or a healthy weight.

[quote Squleamish]@supermoonrising - absolutely. It needs to be possible to have a sensible, open discussion about relative risks (some as yet unknown), so people can make truly informed decisions. For some people (best examples being older people, those with health conditions and those who are overweight), the risk-benefit balance is quite clearly in favour of vaccines; for others (best example being young kids), it's clearly in favour of waiting. How have we lost the ability to openly discuss this without mud-slinging - in particular the grey areas in the middle where the calculations are much less clear?

@EdgeOfTheSky, I agree completely. Where is the money/effort going into helping people to lose weight, to exercise, to manage their chronic health conditions, to correct any vitamin deficiencies? This would save lives not just from Covid, but from all causes (and, as we know, all-cause, non-Covid, mortality is alarmingly up). If anyway, we've had the opposite - gyms closing, activity discouraged, stress increased, standard medical care halted... The jabs are great (for many people), but why is this the ONLY preventative thing substantial money and effort is going into? Something has gone very badly awry, and it's hard to avoid the conclusion that it has a lot to do with profits.[/quote]
Profits for who?

It was really hard during the two full lockdowns to get out and about and exercise. On the other hand there were any number of TV snd online resources.

Of course there should be overall investment in health and well-being, but The fact is that to cut the risks most for the greatest number of people, the Gvt putting resources into vaccines was the best priority. I think it was a matter of capacity, rather than profit.

I had lost 2 stone by the time my vaccine came round, and have had all my vaccines as soon as poss.

Ongoing we need to look at the wider picture. Nurturing people, supporting the complexities.

@bumbleymummy

I think a targeted campaign highlighting the risk of high BMI would actually be a quick way to encourage uptake in one of the most at risk subsets of the unvaccinated.

I see this so often from you, do you think it's better not addressing all the unvaccinated people, but they should only target people with high bmi? Isn't that slightly discriminating, if it comes out from another unvaccinated person? Like you are saying, I have my rights not to be vaccinated because I'm not fat, but you don't?