90% of ICU patients admitted with COVID haven't been vaccinated.

[Desithebulldog]

Been listening to the news and they've said that 90% of the patients admitted to ICU with COVID haven't been vaccinated. For each patient admitted they are denying 10 other patients who need surgery their ICU beds. So currently (I'm sure there are more) there are 1,000 patients holding up 10,000 operations. I find this absolutely gobsmacking. Why, why, why would people not get vaccinated to help the NHS? They are on their knees and need all the help they can get. I know it's a personal choice but why are all the non-believers making it so hard for others to get a much needed operation? I just don't get it.

Should be affected whoops sorry grammar checkers

And @EnidSpyton, couldn’t agree more!
I had covid pre vaccines and had no issues, recovering at home within a few days with a few paracetamol. I then also felt coerced/forced to get the vaccine just so I could live a normal life (I live in France with domestic vaccine passports for nearly everywhere) and travel to see my relatives in the uk. I also don’t feel I should have needed to have it for those reasons.
Then when I did have it my periods have been completely messed up since and the GP wasn’t interested and could offer no reason for it, just told me my unwillingness to get any further vaccines was not justified. No chance of any exemptions despite my huge reluctance to get the booster and cause more interference with my body just so I can continue to access life. It’s utterly criminal, almost like some new cult.

@Staryflight445 From a Guardian article to back up my Australia stats which make 9 in the UK look unrealistic.
"Australia has since recorded a total of 148 cases of confirmed or probable TTS as of 30 September, from 11.6m AstraZeneca vaccine doses. Just eight of those cases have proved fatal – a fatality rate from TTS of just over 5%. Most cases – 129 – have been discharged from hospital."

Why do people think ‘you can’t catch obesity’ is a valid point? We’re discussing strain on the nhs, beds being unavailable, surgeries having to be delayed etc. The majority of people in icu (80%) are overweight or obese. But we do not hear anything about this from the media. No one is blaming overweight/obese people or clamouring for them to be denied treatment. Perhaps vaccination rates would increase in younger overweight/obese people if they knew they were still at high risk, in spite of their age.

Has anyone actually produced the data for this 90% figure yet?

They have a different reporting system there.
If you would again do as I ask you would realise how to read and understand the information.

@bumbleymummy

Why do people think ‘you can’t catch obesity’ is a valid point? We’re discussing strain on the nhs, beds being unavailable, surgeries having to be delayed etc. The majority of people in icu (80%) are overweight or obese. But we do not hear anything about this from the media. No one is blaming overweight/obese people or clamouring for them to be denied treatment. Perhaps vaccination rates would increase in younger overweight/obese people if they knew they were still at high risk, in spite of their age.

Has anyone actually produced the data for this 90% figure yet?

If there was a jab overweight and obese people could get tomorrow that would reduce weight, and if that weight loss would reduce their risk of serious illness or hospitalisation from Covid by 90% plus then you bet people would be clamouring for them to have it. As things stand, yes a lot of people (I include myself in that) should be losing weight, but there’s nothing they can do immediately that within 2 weeks will have made such a big difference as vaccination would for the unvaccinated.

And obviously the media must have reported their presence in hospitals or how would we know that they’re there?

This is, of course, glossing over the fact that there are plenty of unvaccinated overweight and obese people. It’s not like the unvaccinated are all some kind of paragons of virtue and health who only ever eat plants and have no vices whatsoever.

@howdiditcometothis666 what on earth??? That sounds like blatant misinformation to me. I’m beginning to think those that spread misinformation should be considered as abhorrent as racists - the resulting harm that is caused is just as bad.

18% is utterly ridiculous. Where the did you get that from?

@MistressoftheDarkSide sorry you are struggling with your Mental Health. I am too due to a whole heap of stresses I am under but no I do not want to thank @EnidSpyton as this poster has made me feel 100 times worse as apparently I am a scourge on the NHS as I am obese and I should just eat less and move more. If only it was that simple?

@Arethechildreninbedyet “ 98% of the prenatal admissions are unvaccinated.”

Do you have a source for this please?

northeastlondonccg.nhs.uk/news/almost-90-of-patients-admitted-to-intensive-care-units-in-north-east-london-are-not-fully-vaccinated/

@bumbleymummy

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/doctors-and-nurses-vent-anger-as-unvaccinated-covid-cases-delay-vital-operations-z3zchvv9l

@RobinPenguins I did say that you might find a higher rate of uptake of the vaccine in younger overweight/obese people if they knew they were higher risk. I’m certainly not suggesting that young unvaccinated people in icu are all healthy. I would imagine many of them are overweight/obese (given that >80% in ICU are) and may have made a different decision about the vaccine if they knew they were higher risk. It’s a bit silly to target all unvaccinated people as a group when many are young/healthy/have previously been infected etc and are very unlikely to end up in icu.

I didn’t get my figures about numbers of overweight/ obese people in icu from the media btw. ICNARC release weekly reports. The media could really be reporting on it more.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/11/11/world/europe/germany-covid-unvaccinated.amp.html

Thanks @Uhuhher I was looking for the actual data rather than news articles though.

@bumbleymummy - do you think perhaps, that people who are very, very highly qualified - professors, doctors etc - can interpret the data - that you admit you don’t understand better than you do - and give a very clear message that the unvaccinated are causing high problems for the NHS?

We’re not in Germany. Iirc they have a lower vaccination uptake than we do. Are people still using ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated’? Thought we were well past that one given the number of cases in vaccinated people!

*huge

I am a doctor and yes, I’m interested in where the figures came from. :)

@HangingDitch

You could ask why people do any number of things.

Why do people drink that much alcohol they vomit in the street and need to have their stomach pumped?

Why do people do risky, needless activities like the black run at skiing or skydiving?

Why do people eat crap food when they know for a fact it could make them ill?

As far as I’m concerned, unless someone has a medical reason not to have the vaccine they’re a bit a daft. However, the reason the NHS is creaking is far wider than a few people not getting jabbed.

People do all the things you have listed because they are fun. I’m sure no one thinks they will be harmed by them but they take the risk because it’s enjoyable. Not having a vaccine when there is a killer infection out there is just stupid.

@bumbleymummy

Why do people think ‘you can’t catch obesity’ is a valid point? We’re discussing strain on the nhs, beds being unavailable, surgeries having to be delayed etc. The majority of people in icu (80%) are overweight or obese. But we do not hear anything about this from the media. No one is blaming overweight/obese people or clamouring for them to be denied treatment. Perhaps vaccination rates would increase in younger overweight/obese people if they knew they were still at high risk, in spite of their age.

Has anyone actually produced the data for this 90% figure yet?

The point in that if they had bothered to get the vaccine in the first place then they most likely woiuldnt have been in the ICU.. I'm off to the funderal of good friend tomorrow, who really should have been first in the queue for it, but decided he didnt need it , he spent 4 weeks in hospital, 2 of those in ITU before he died.

[quote Uhuhher]@howdiditcometothis666 what on earth??? That sounds like blatant misinformation to me. I’m beginning to think those that spread misinformation should be considered as abhorrent as racists - the resulting harm that is caused is just as bad.[/quote]
What are you talking about? I am quoting from a BBC article which links to the Govt website along with a Guardian article so take it up with them

@AngeloMysterioso

I’m usually pretty liberal but where this is concerned I’m beginning to feel quite strongly that if someone is prepared to not have the covid vaccine (unless advised not to for medical reasons) they should be prepared to not have treatment if/when they get covid. They knew the risks and made their choice.

They knew the risks and made their choice.

Really?

I think some people here don’t understand the difference between choice and coercion.

Examples of choice: Do you want tea or coffee? Shall we go to Barbados or the Blackpool for this year’s holiday? Chicken or fish?

Coercion, on the other hand, is when a person or institution with power over another person, exercises that power in order to get you to do what they want. Even when it's a thing that never occurred to you to do. For instance, a boss telling his secretary, “sleep with me or I’ll fire you.”

Coercion is your government telling you “get this jab or you can’t go to pubs/go shopping/keep your job/leave your house.
Coercion is get the jab or we’ll fine you £2000 a month/cancel your pension/put you in prison.

Coercion is your health service denying you treatment because you did not take a jab they wanted you to.

Coercion is a ship’s captain telling you he’d leaving you behind on a volcano-erupting island because you did not get a jab, but if you get a jab now, he’ll take you. Otherwise, have fun in the lava.

See the difference? Hint: the person giving you the “choice” has power to disrupt your life and, possibly, kill you if you don’t comply with their demand. It's a punishment for non-compliance.

And if you think it’s a public health matter to get this jab, either you are missing some information or you are entertaining a logical fallacy/are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

Everyone knows by now, or should know, that the jabbed are in no way “safer” than the unjabbed when it comes to spreading CV19. In fact, the very opposite might be the case.

How come this new “variant” was able to spread to countries which only accept the jabbed across their borders? A mystery.

Most of the unjabbed are perfectly healthy, perfectly decent human beings. Many of them have already had CV19 and recovered, are immune and carry no viral load.

But I guess with all the fear circulating it makes you feel better to have a scapegoat. Someone to punish.

@Uhuhher

18% is utterly ridiculous. Where the ** did you get that from?

I'll repeat all my sources

BBC article www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59418123
"These clots, known as vaccine-induced immune thrombotic thrombocytopenia, have been linked to 73 deaths out of nearly 50 million doses of AstraZeneca given in the UK."
The BBC article links you to here www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccination-blood-clotting-information-for-healthcare-professionals/information-for-healthcare-professionals-on-blood-clotting-following-covid-19-vaccination
which says Point number 5 : Number of those affected who Die
"A detailed review of all suspected cases is ongoing and based on the reports received by the MHRA as of 11 August, there were 73 fatal cases from the 411 events reviewed with an estimated overall case fatality rate of 18%."
which means 18% of those with the vaccine blood clots die

The Guardian article www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/oct/02/just-in-time-how-australian-doctors-drastically-reduced-deaths-from-vaccine-linked-blood-clots

"Australia has since recorded a total of 148 cases of confirmed or probable TTS as of 30 September, from 11.6m AstraZeneca vaccine doses. Just eight of those cases have proved fatal – a fatality rate from TTS of just over 5%. Most cases – 129 – have been discharged from hospital."

@bumbleymummy whilst the 80% are overweight or obese it correct I am sure that weight related risk didn't start until a BMI of 30 to 35.
By not including overweight than it is more 50/50.