90% of ICU patients admitted with COVID haven't been vaccinated.

[Desithebulldog]

Been listening to the news and they've said that 90% of the patients admitted to ICU with COVID haven't been vaccinated. For each patient admitted they are denying 10 other patients who need surgery their ICU beds. So currently (I'm sure there are more) there are 1,000 patients holding up 10,000 operations. I find this absolutely gobsmacking. Why, why, why would people not get vaccinated to help the NHS? They are on their knees and need all the help they can get. I know it's a personal choice but why are all the non-believers making it so hard for others to get a much needed operation? I just don't get it.

@Kshhuxnxk

By this stage we all know someone, or know someone who knows someone, who has died of Covid. There's no excuse for thinking 'Oh, it's just like a mild case of flu'. I know personally 8 people who have had covid. 1 elderly person died of it because they were medically unable to be vaccinated (and probably the fact they smoked 20 a day for about 50 years and COPD). 4 others pre-vaccination and yes symptoms like a very bad cold, 1 had no symptoms at all (fully vaccinated), 1 ended up in hospital (not icu) fully vaccinated, 1 not vaccinated, no symptoms at all. I have had both vaccines and my booster. I was so ill after my booster I will not ever be getting any more, I'd rather take my chance with Covid. Also, people partically vaccinated are being counted as unvaccinated so yes, figures are given in a way that makes it a grey figure .

That’s a very well run scientific study and statistical analysis involving a large number of carefully selected participants - you should see if you can get it published in a respected medical journal. I’m thinking one on Facebook maybe - or TikTok - so people doing their own research can access it easily.

[quote Northsoutheastwest76]**@MistressoftheDarkSide* sorry you are struggling with your Mental Health. I am too due to a whole heap of stresses I am under but no I do not want to thank @EnidSpyton* as this poster has made me feel 100 times worse as apparently I am a scourge on the NHS as I am obese and I should just eat less and move more. If only it was that simple?[/quote]
@Northsoutheastwest76

I never said this.

I know obesity is complex.

I had no intention to make you feel bad.

However it is a fact that obesity is the main cause of many chronic illnesses and costs the NHS billions every year. I appreciate that behind every statistic there is a person with a range of complex needs and I have every sympathy for those struggling. Nonetheless the facts remain that obesity costs the NHS a hell of a lot of money.

I'm sorry if that makes you feel bad but I can't deny the truth. It wasn't meant to be personal.

Found the data for vaccinated /unvaccinated and given how many people are now vaccinated than the report is pretty damning.
Over 70% of admissions unvaccinated. And only 20% fully vaccinated.

@Northsoutheastwest76

Found the data for vaccinated /unvaccinated and given how many people are now vaccinated than the report is pretty damning. Over 70% of admissions unvaccinated. And only 20% fully vaccinated.

I can’t see it clearly on my phone but doesn’t that data show from 1st May to 31st July?

It’s really hard to find current data on this. I know a couple of people have but it’s not obvious anywhere.

Not having a vaccine when there is a killer infection out there is just stupid.

Flu is also a ‘killer infection’ but we don’t judge people as ‘stupid’ for deciding not to have the vaccine if they don’t want it - even if they are at increased risk.

@Northsoutheastwest76 that’s only up to July. It’s not current. And in any case 70% is not 90% so probably not the source for this article.

[quote bumbleymummy]@RobinPenguins I did say that you might find a higher rate of uptake of the vaccine in younger overweight/obese people if they knew they were higher risk. I’m certainly not suggesting that young unvaccinated people in icu are all healthy. I would imagine many of them are overweight/obese (given that >80% in ICU are) and may have made a different decision about the vaccine if they knew they were higher risk. It’s a bit silly to target all unvaccinated people as a group when many are young/healthy/have previously been infected etc and are very unlikely to end up in icu.

I didn’t get my figures about numbers of overweight/ obese people in icu from the media btw. ICNARC release weekly reports. The media could really be reporting on it more.[/quote]
I’d be amazed if any of them didn’t know they were higher risk. I do. If you use social media, or even read the comments on newspaper articles, you are left under no illusion that many people think you’re a fat fuck and it’ll be your own fat fault if you get sick and/or die (despite the fact, statistically speaking, it’s likely a lot of the commenters are probably also fat themselves). So my heart doesn’t really bleed for the poor unvaccinated people who are being so unfairly criticised when people like me have been criticised for decades as “a drain on the NHS”. If there was something as simple and instant as a vaccination I could have then I’d bloody do it.

Previously fit healthy people who end up in ITU with covid tend to be there a long time - those who were CEV probably won't be there that long because they die quicker - those who were healthy will fight it - and may get better or may not - but it isn't a in 48 hours as a precaution after a major operation

My cousin, a previously healthy 46 year old, was on a ventilator for over 5 weeks before he died back in the first wave - others were in for much longer. Previously I'd only known those in ITU for less than a week before being stepped down to HDU

Yep BMI of 30 up appears to be the cut off.
@EnidSpyton thank you for you explanation but it still stands that obesity is a complex issue that is not solved by just saying eat less and move more.
Most of my weight gain has occurred since March 2020 when MH support for one of my children became untenable due to it moving virtually.
I have not always been obese. When things are good I have lost weight but it goes back on quicker than it comes off.
I have decided that fitness is the way forward and all my blood tests etc support that I am in hold heath still.
Bring obese doesn't automatically make you develop heart problems or diabetes.
Bizarrely the only people in my immediate family and friendship group with diabetes or high cholesterol are actually underweight.

@bumbleymummy

Not having a vaccine when there is a killer infection out there is just stupid.

Flu is also a ‘killer infection’ but we don’t judge people as ‘stupid’ for deciding not to have the vaccine if they don’t want it - even if they are at increased risk.

who is "we"

Id think if you were called for the flu tax each year and didn't have it you'd be a bit daft and putting yourself at risk and taking up valuable resources when you could have a prevention

NHS don't do a great deal of preventative medicine but they do do vaccinations

@Northsoutheastwest76

oxfordbrc.nihr.ac.uk/study-highlights-role-of-bmi-in-increased-covid-19-risks/

“ A study by University of Oxford researchers has found that the risk of admission to hospital, admission to ICU or death from COVID-19 increases progressively above a ‘normal’ BMI of 23, even without other comorbidities.”

“ Notably, the effect of excess weight on the risk of severe COVID was greatest in young people aged 20 to 39 years of age, and decreased after the age of 60. Excess weight had very little effect on the risk of severe COVID in people aged over 80 years.”

Link to lancet study in article.

&bumbleymummy*

*@RobinPenguinsI did say that you might find a higher rate of uptake of the vaccine in younger overweight/obese people if they knew they were higher risk. I’m certainly not suggesting that young unvaccinated people in icu are all healthy. I would imagine many of themareoverweight/obese (given that >80% in ICU are) and may have made a different decision about the vaccine if they knew they were higher risk. It’s a bit silly to targetallunvaccinated people as a group when many are young/healthy/have previously been infected etc and are very unlikely to end up in icu.

Yes but the risk only really increases at BMI 30 plus so more like 50/50

@ivykaty44 uptake of the flu vac is usually between 60-72% in older people/hcps who are offered it. I’ve never heard much judgement about people who decide not to take it. Nor have I ever heard people demanding that they be refused treatment if they are hospitalised.

See above post @Northsoutheastwest76

And you would be in favor of this approach for smokers, drinkers, people who eat junk food and are overweight, people who go rock climbing or mountaineering and end up being rescued with frostbite or broken limbs? After all, they knew the risks…

This has come up before. It's down to cost, not ethics. If the numbers of accidental injuries were such as to massively impact necessary surgery for a large enough chunk of the population, we'd already have done something about it.

Regarding obesity, its still cheaper to treat it than prevent it, whereas with COVID it's the other way around. If there was a vaccine to prevent obesity, do you think we'd have much hesitancy at all?

@bumbleymummy

I am a doctor and yes, I’m interested in where the figures came from. :)

I don't believe you are a doctor. Your antivax nonsense would be (a bit) more convincingly framed if you were.

Are you a doctor of medicine, bumbley?

@bumbleymummy

Not having a vaccine when there is a killer infection out there is just stupid.

Flu is also a ‘killer infection’ but we don’t judge people as ‘stupid’ for deciding not to have the vaccine if they don’t want it - even if they are at increased risk.

Because the ICU's haven't been flooded before so it was their own risk. That makes all the difference.

Everyone knows by now, or should know, that the jabbed are in no way “safer” than the unjabbed when it comes to spreading CV19. In fact, the very opposite might be the case.

This is nonsense, @Grannycurls - just pure nonsense. Why are you trying to spread misinformation about the Covid vaccines?

Not sure what definition of ‘anti-vax’ you’re using. I actually think the vaccine has done a great job of reducing the risk of serious illness and hospitalisation in the most vulnerable groups. I also think we should be rolling out boosters as quickly as possible. We can already see the impact they’re having on reducing hospitalisations in the older age groups. I don’t agree with mandatory/coerced vaccination and vaccine passports though. And yep, I have a PhD (and an MSc). Don’t really care if you believe me or not. I wouldn’t have gotten my job without them so I guess my employers do. .

@EnidSpyton It isn't medical fascism. Speaking with a lot of privilege, there.

@bumbleymummy again you are lumping the overweight in with the obese to get your 80% figure. Yet studies have shown that being overweight is not a risk factor.
So it us looking at more 50/50 between the obese zbd everyone else.

Why dont they reopen the nightingale hospitals?
Were they ever used to begin with?

Because the ICU's haven't been flooded before so it was their own risk
That makes all the difference

The NHS has been shut down several times before with a halting of all elective treatments, long before CV came along, there has been issues with ICU availability as well.

All due to winter pressures, the response has always been education and pushing GP practice to get people vaccinated for flu, not making flu vaccination compulsory.

@bumbleymummy

Not sure what definition of ‘anti-vax’ you’re using. I actually think the vaccine has done a great job of reducing the risk of serious illness and hospitalisation in the most vulnerable groups. I also think we should be rolling out boosters as quickly as possible. We can already see the impact they’re having on reducing hospitalisations in the older age groups. I don’t agree with mandatory/coerced vaccination and vaccine passports though. And yep, I have a PhD (and an MSc). Don’t really care if you believe me or not. I wouldn’t have gotten my job without them so I guess my employers do. .

I've seen you posting these Covid denialist opinions all over the Covid boards.

Claiming to be a doctor in a context of discussing medical care, care rationing, etc, obviously carries an implication of being a medical doctor, and you know that as well as I do. This isn't an academia board.