90% of ICU patients admitted with COVID haven't been vaccinated.

[Desithebulldog]

Been listening to the news and they've said that 90% of the patients admitted to ICU with COVID haven't been vaccinated. For each patient admitted they are denying 10 other patients who need surgery their ICU beds. So currently (I'm sure there are more) there are 1,000 patients holding up 10,000 operations. I find this absolutely gobsmacking. Why, why, why would people not get vaccinated to help the NHS? They are on their knees and need all the help they can get. I know it's a personal choice but why are all the non-believers making it so hard for others to get a much needed operation? I just don't get it.

@NdujaWannaDance

Lovely, how we are all spitting on the unvaccinated, instead of asking why funding has been cut to the bone so severely.

They are two entirely different conversations. Stop deflecting.

No, they are not. They are only unrelated for the swivel-eyed who look to point the finger and stay on the surface of this kind of debate.

What a hate filled thread! So full of poison and bile.

Lovely, how we are all spitting on the unvaccinated, instead of asking why funding has been cut to the bone so severely.

It’s entirely possible to ask why funding has been cut to the bone and think that people who are still choosing to remain unvaccinated at this point are dicks.

@C8H10N4O2

NHS England said that between July and November more than nine in 10 patients receiving the most specialist care, in which artificial lungs were used to try to save their lives, were unvaccinated

That isn't stats. If NHSE have the data behind it then it should be published with the rest of the stats.

Also is this all patients or just covid patients (for whom vaccination status isn't the determinant).

A year ago we had much the same claims being made for overweight vs healthy weight people, including from health bodies. That turned out to be largely a work of fiction by journalists when the actual stats were made available and other issues were factored in.

It is a statistic picked up by the media.

I am pretty sure that the Times and NHS England didn't make it up.

You could go and research it yourself, if you want more details.

There are quite a few articles just published in which named, senior ICU staff discuss that their ICUs are disproportionately treating unvaccinated covid patients. It appears to be a current phenomenon and the whole thing is very difficult.

It wouldn't be the first time that part of the work of medical professionals is to pick up the pieces when people don't understand a health situation.

I'm not claiming to have an answer.

Millions of people have had covid and are healthy. Shouldn’t they have a choice on whether or not they have a vaccine that they feel they don’t need?
Reinfection is rare and is usually milder.

[quote thepeopleversuswork]@bumbleymummy

Flu can also hospitalise and kill young, fit people. The rates for that group are comparable.

This is simply not true.

From the British Medical Journal:

Are there more deaths from flu than from covid?
Data from the Office for National Statistics show that in England and Wales the number of deaths from influenza was 1598 in 2018 and 1223 in 2019.1 This is way below the annual deaths from covid-19, which at the current rate of around 800 deaths a week in England and Wales equates to more than 40 000 a year.2[/quote]
@thepeopleversuswork you mustn’t have read my post properly. “The rates for that group are comparable.

“All so some thicko can practice his or her right to not eat healthily and exercise. It’s disgusting.”

“All so some thicko can practice his or her right to smoke. It’s disgusting.”

“All so some thicko can practice his or her right to drink. It’s disgusting.”

“All so some thicko can practice his or her right to participate in extreme sports. It’s disgusting.”

Repeating so you can see how ridiculous your ‘truth’ sounds.

It is a statistic picked up by the media

As were the threads and articles stating "fatties are taking all the covid beds" scare articles.

I am pretty sure that the Times and NHS England didn't make it up

Then the source data should be no issue. However both those bodies were pursuing the "fatties stealing covid beds" line, albeit with less tabloid languages, which turned out to be untrue.

You could go and research it yourself, if you want more details

Yes I've done that, I've been through ONS stats. Can't find any saying 90% of ICU beds have unvaccinated covid sufferers. Happy to be pointed at some that do say this.

In the mean time this is very effectively deflecting from the woeful state of ICU provision in this country. People were having surgery cancelled due to ICU capacity long before covid. If I were part of one of the bodies responsible for funding or managing that then I'd be keen to point the finger as well.

@CatAlice we all know the 'underlying conditions' is a handy way of othering.

Oddly enough, we are not having a world-wide simultaneous catastrophic level of sporting injuries, causing all other treatments and life-saving surgeries to be delayed.

People are smoking, and drinking, and doing drugs, and engaging in various unhealthy lifestyle behaviours to whatever degree they do. But again we are not having a world-wide pandemic of bad choices that go on to infect and kill others.

All you independent thinkers and freedom fighters and bodily autonomists and superior data knowers really don't like being called 'thickos' it seems.

@bumbleymummy

“All so some thicko can practice his or her right to not eat healthily and exercise. It’s disgusting.”

“All so some thicko can practice his or her right to smoke. It’s disgusting.”

“All so some thicko can practice his or her right to drink. It’s disgusting.”

“All so some thicko can practice his or her right to participate in extreme sports. It’s disgusting.”

Repeating so you can see how ridiculous your ‘truth’ sounds.

Something is ridiculous, not the original quote.

Oddly enough, we are not having a world-wide simultaneous catastrophic level of sporting injuries, causing all other treatments and life-saving surgeries to be delayed.

@milkyaqua exactly! But I can picture the comedy sketch now though

superior data knowers

You mean people who want to see actual data rather than FOAF data?

Ok that's me then. Perhaps the post and run OP could come back and cite their original stats which are what we should be using if talking about policy changes.

You may also have missed the frequent description of alcohol/smoking use and weight problems being an "epidemic" which block beds including ICU from the deserving.

If we could all actually be superior data knowers in the hope that then data will influence policy rather than tabloid headlines and anecdata. Otherwise accusations of being a "superior data knower" sounds an awful lot like "political correctness gawn maaaad".

[quote Lostinacloud]@WoodyGd exactly! The beds are available but not the staff. That’s not due to unvaccinated patients, that’s due to lack of investment.
I think it’s high time we took the spotlight and main responsibility off of each other to try and contain an airborne microscopic virus and focused it back on the government who have the job of properly allocating our taxes.[/quote]
FFS, are you living under a rock? Every sector is dealing with staff shortages. People just aren't available. I have recruiters hitting me up twice a week on average and the same is true for a lot of people. Even organisations capable of paying top-dollar are struggling to get enough people. Unemployment rates are at a record low.

You can't blame the government for this one, unless you are prepared to blame them for not making vaccines mandatory or throwing the whole country into lockdown till everyone is vaccinated.

Here is the actual data but please don’t let this stop your disgusting shaming of people who have chosen not to have a vaccine that has killed people!
36% in hospital are unvaccinated. It almost like the media are trying to manipulate people using old data 🤔

@Olivia333

Here is the actual data but please don’t let this stop your disgusting shaming of people who have chosen not to have a vaccine that has killed people! 36% in hospital are unvaccinated. It almost like the media are trying to manipulate people using old data 🤔

that comes up really blurred but seems to be A and E (emergency) presentations.

We are discussing ICU (intensive care) beds, that's something else (and more likely to be impacted by people being unvaccinated)

There has been 9 deaths recorded due to the vaccine, which is an incredibly small percentage compared to how many people have received the vaccine.

Covid itself has killed more people. Why are you focusing on the wrong thing? @Olivia333

Look, most people in this country have self inflicted illness. The biggest cost to the NHS is Type 2 Diabetes, which costs billions every year. What causes type 2 diabetes? Obesity. What causes obesity? People eating too much and not exercising enough. It has devastating
Wrong.
Obesity is caused by so many different factors. I hold my hands up. I am obese but according to latest blood tests I am no more likely to drop dead than the average 50 year old. No diabetes or heart disease or cholesterol etc etc. My blood pressure is good and I probably walk 300 or so miles per average month. I swim too. Why am I obese. Well purely down to stress. I have a disabled DH and SEN children one struggling mentally too with little support from anywhere.
My mental health is pretty shit as a result of the stress but walking is my saviour.
Yet some the the judgemental soles on here think iti s as fucking simple as eating less and moving more.
I would take any shot to cure my apparently disgusting obesity which is a scourge of the NHS.
Despite having no need for a hospital bed bar child birth.
So no obesity is not the same as refusing a vaccine. You can't catch obesity.

@Staryflight445

There has been 9 deaths recorded due to the vaccine, which is an incredibly small percentage compared to how many people have received the vaccine.

Covid itself has killed more people. Why are you focusing on the wrong thing? @Olivia333

Oh do stop!

Again you arrive with the bloody logic.

Give it a rest.

How are people supposed to be determinedly illogical with posters like you around?

😆 (Just in case...)

@Staryflight445

There has been 9 deaths recorded due to the vaccine, which is an incredibly small percentage compared to how many people have received the vaccine.

Covid itself has killed more people. Why are you focusing on the wrong thing? @Olivia333

Incorrect. There has been 73 linked just to the AZ. Surprised me as I have been trying to find that out to no avail but it was in a BBC article about blood clots . Bear in mind that it takes up to 5 mths to establish a link there may well be more . Plus it doesn't tell you if they were 73 healthy people with low risk from Covid.

40% is less than half and is therefore the minority.

There has been 9.

I don’t know where you’re getting 37 from. Are you even looking at UK data?

9 deaths and 114,304,726 vaccines given are the uk stats.

By this stage we all know someone, or know someone who knows someone, who has died of Covid. There's no excuse for thinking 'Oh, it's just like a mild case of flu'.
I know personally 8 people who have had covid. 1 elderly person died of it because they were medically unable to be vaccinated (and probably the fact they smoked 20 a day for about 50 years and COPD). 4 others pre-vaccination and yes symptoms like a very bad cold, 1 had no symptoms at all (fully vaccinated), 1 ended up in hospital (not icu) fully vaccinated, 1 not vaccinated, no symptoms at all. I have had both vaccines and my booster. I was so ill after my booster I will not ever be getting any more, I'd rather take my chance with Covid. Also, people partically vaccinated are being counted as unvaccinated so yes, figures are given in a way that makes it a grey figure .

You can't blame the government for this one, unless you are prepared to blame them for not making vaccines mandatory or throwing the whole country into lockdown till everyone is vaccinated

The current government has presided over running ICU capacity down to its pitiful operational levels and also made the "strategic" decision to save money by running down PPE stocks which contributed to spread amongst staff and in cared for people both in homes and in their own home. They are also responsible for spending a decade avoiding addressing issues in the care sector and even now promising jam tomorrow.

The report isn’t about ICU beds - it’s about ‘the most severe cases’

…

Between July and November, NHS England said that 150 patients were referred for extracorporeal membrane oxygenation, or Ecmo, where blood is cycled through an artificial lung machine before returning it to the body. Of these patients, only 6 per cent had been fully vaccinated.