Wtf is going on??!!

[NearlyDown]

I actually think it’s quite scary and a bit strange the amount of people who are happy to have their human rights taken away.

For the record I’m fully vaccinated and I think that the vaccine is brilliant, but it is a medical procedure and I don’t think people that have made the decision not to have said medical procedure should then not be able to participate in society.

This is not at all normal, I can see the hospital beds are getting overwhelmed but this is likely because of viruses that haven’t been able to run through the population normally are making people very poorly.

Which means that this will happen every winter forevermore if we don’t let humans, vaccinated or not just get on with life.

@NearlyDown OP I agree with you. I find it terrifying that so many are so easily duped.

Posters saying ‘because there’s a pandemic’ or ‘because the virus has mutated’ are not answering your point.

Human rights have taken centuries to evolve and are being given away rather than taken away. And it is a human right to say what does and doesn’t go into your body. Not the same as mandating a behaviour.

You’re completely right OP. You know so much more than doctors, scientists and researchers. It’s wonderful that you can google things and spread misinformation as fact.

@bestbeforedateexpired

Perhaps everyone who has become an armchair virologist over the last 2 years could invest some of their time and energy catching up on what this corrupt and incompetent government are pushing though parliament without appropriate scrutiny.

And this!

I am with the OP it is,actually scary how the messaging has been so effective and people are terrified because of this and happy to sign away rights, freedoms and consents. I don't believe for a minute in giant conspiracy but covid has been a very useful vehicle for imposing the unthinkable

Even if I didn't agree with what OP is saying, I would defend her right to say it. It's so important that we carefully consider these minority opinions to stop the majority becoming a tyranny.

Please educate yourself, it’s impossible to achieve a herd immunity

I do t see ‘armchair’ virologists in here. Understanding the basic idea that lots of people need a vaccine for it to work doesn’t require much more than basic common sense.

What interests me is people talking about human rights without being very clear what exactly they mean.

It’s a very Western, first world privileged position to be crying about human rights infringement when most of the third world are desperate for the vaccine.

This is a nasty corrupt government but of all the things they do, expecting a population to get a vaccine for the greater good, isn’t really one of the worst.

@milly74

I am with the OP it is,actually scary how the messaging has been so effective and people are terrified because of this and happy to sign away rights, freedoms and consents. I don't believe for a minute in giant conspiracy but covid has been a very useful vehicle for imposing the unthinkable

What rights, freedoms and consents? Can you name some?

Has anyone contacted their MP about their concerns ?

@frumpety

Has anyone contacted their MP about their concerns ?

I’m going to! Got a letter template

Deaths are rising in Germany so they have made decisions based on that. Over 300 a day with hospital beds full or filling means that they need to do what is right for them. I guess they could sit back and do nothing and watch deaths continuing to rise

Are you serious? You cannot see it yourself? It’s been 2 years now

Regarding hospitals being overwhelmed…. Do people realise that they are overwhelmed every winter?
I’ve spent a lot of time in hospital over the last ten years and I can tell you that this is nothing at all new.
The winter of 2018/19 was particularly bad as it was a very cold winter. Flu deaths sky rocketed yet no one even mentioned it. That year we had to wait hours and hours for a slot for my DD to go to theatre. There was no bed for her, we had to sit in a corner of the ward and watch as the poor nurses tried to do a good job under these conditions and under funded and staffed. And that was in the children’s hospital. They told me the adults was a hundred times worse.

I feel sad that now nothing seems to matter but Covid. In my family we’ve had to deal with many health issues and have been here many times over.

So yes op. I understand what you’re feeling. I am amazed and terrified by what I see happening around the world in relation to vaccination passports/fines and talk of making them compulsory. It’s hysteria over one virus. Using the ‘hospitals not getting overwhelmed’ line does not wash for me. Yes of course no one actually wants them to be overwhelmed, but they are anyway. They are chronically underfunded and understaffed. I adore the NHS, it has saved my Dd and other family members but my god it has needed saving for a long time.

Germany currently have a lot of people who are seriously or critically ill, so needing hospital treatment, nearly four times as many as the UK at the moment. I know their healthcare system has been lauded as much better than the NHS, but even it has a tipping point where it becomes difficult to cope.

Where do you get your numbers from frumpety?
The ones in our news are different:
The cumulative and absolute number of hospitalisations suggest otherwise.

If you think being told to wear a mask is an abuse if your human rights or not go the pub…that’s hilarious.

Get a sense of perspective.

Germany
Coronavirus Cases:
6,026,796
Deaths:
102,909
ACTIVE CASES
944,187
Currently Infected Patients
939,551 (99.5%)
in Mild Condition

4,636 (0.5%)
Serious or Critical

I guess that's why they are making the decisions they are

And yes, people are giving up rights by making vaccines compulsory. People should absolutely have the right to choose what is injected into them.

@frumpety

Has anyone contacted their MP about their concerns ?

No I haven't. I feel like it's totally pointless. Any MP's who vote against it are labelled rebellious. The government seem to be making laws without carefully considering any minority opinions. For a while last year they were bringing in laws without the MP's voting. Even now, Boris makes the announcements before they have even been voted on.

If you want to live in a society you have to live by the rules of that society. If you don’t you can always stay in your house forever or go to live on a remote island by yourself. Actually that sounds very tempting!

@Boatingforthestars

But you are talking about Germany and they do have problems. No IC beds left.

Different scenario different solutions being considered. They also have pockets of areas with low vaccination take up.

@ThatParent sorry the figures on Worldometer for serious or critically ill covid patients in Germany are about 4.5k , in the UK they are currently less than one thousand. I know Germany has about three times the ICU bed capacity per 100,000 of population than the UK, but those figures still look a bit squeaky bottom time if you are working in healthcare in Germany. I would genuinely be very happy if everything is absolutely fine over there though

Thank you @AliceA2021

It’s always good to see the facts.

I’m with you OP. Completely 100%

Thank you for starting this post

These views are extreme and startling. I don’t see anything like this kind of prejudice, stupidity and cruelty anywhere other than on Mumsnet.

Mumsnet is so busy taking down posts that are questioning all if this and yet doing nothing to address the bigotry that is being spewed out here. Why are they allowing this, I’d go as far to say encouraging this?

I agree, OP. Compulsory vaccination is a breach of human rights (and 'it's not compulsory, you just can't go to work or to the shops without it' isn't fooling anyone.)

The pandemic is frightening. Fear isn't an excuse to give up essential rights. In the past couple of days on MN I've seen it argued that because they had their vaccines, everyone should be forced to, and those that don't are like 'toddlers' who need an 'adult' to make the decision for them.

How about ration cards? Good parents don't let their wayward toddlers gorge on junk food. Or drink alcohol, for that matter. Think how much pressure would be taken off the NHS.

If that seems too far-fetched, imagine that there's something about booster #6 you're not happy with. You've had all the rest, but from what's happened to others around you, you're seriously concerned that there's something wrong with this one. Something the initial testing didn't pick up. Maybe it's a new technology you're not sure about. Maybe you just want to wait a while longer and see if your suspicions are proven right or not. But you're going to have no choice about it. Anti-vaxxer. Don't question it. Just get it done like everyone else.

That's not the world I want to live in. The pandemic will end. The essential rights that people give up may not be so easy to get back.

@TheSandgroper

I don’t get it. You know there are people in iron lungs, don’t you? When Salk and Sabin came on the market, I don’t think anyone asked about human rights. They just took the first vaccination offered to them.

You do know, don’t you, that polio hasn’t died out? It’s just held at bay. Look around you. How many people with it do you see? Do you not realise that everyone who follows an approved vaccination schedule from birth receives a vaccination for polio? And diphtheria? And a whole heap of others? Look up post-polio syndrome. Some of the effects can be life long.

You are living your comfortable life safe because others before you did the hard work. Now, it’s our turn.

I do wonder what would have happened if we'd had SM back then.

Would all those terrifying diseases still be rife?