Wtf is going on??!!

[NearlyDown]

I actually think it’s quite scary and a bit strange the amount of people who are happy to have their human rights taken away.

For the record I’m fully vaccinated and I think that the vaccine is brilliant, but it is a medical procedure and I don’t think people that have made the decision not to have said medical procedure should then not be able to participate in society.

This is not at all normal, I can see the hospital beds are getting overwhelmed but this is likely because of viruses that haven’t been able to run through the population normally are making people very poorly.

Which means that this will happen every winter forevermore if we don’t let humans, vaccinated or not just get on with life.

@trumpisagit

I think Germany will regret this decision. I am happy to have any jabs offered but making them mandatory changes things a little. Nudging people to get vaccinated may be more effective in the long term than forcing them.

Couldn't agree more.

And I also think there are, and have been, ludicrous restrictions in place during this pandemic. Including the "picnics" in parks a pp mentioned, not being allowed to sit on a bench, car parks being closed at beauty spots (I understand reducing demand when they were really busy but one of ours is still shut!) and of course the taping off of "non-essential" aisles in supermarkets. None of which reduced transmission of the virus in any way.

A poster also mentioned yesterday that you can't drink alcohol outside in (her part of) Germany. I would have thought being outside would be better!

It is all about control.

I agree with you, what is happening on the continent is proper scary. Hopefully it wont happen here?

And of all places Germany and Austria.

Peregina

"From the same Magic Money Forest which found £37 billion for the failed track and trace system and which paid eye watering sums to Johnson and Hancock's chums for useless PPE equipment."

So it exists? Pleased to know that, it solves a lot of problems

@Peregrina

Which Magic Money Tree should be used to pay for this OP?

From the same Magic Money Forest which found £37 billion for the failed track and trace system and which paid eye watering sums to Johnson and Hancock's chums for useless PPE equipment.

And the same Magic Money Tree that found money for the furlough scheme.

And the same Magic Money Tree that finds £2bn every year to run the Trident deterrent.

And the same Magic Money Tree that finds £53.2bn every year for defence spending in the UK (for context, the NHS gets around half of this every year).

The winter of 2018/19 was particularly bad as it was a very cold winter

I particularly remember the huge media battle about the little boy waiting on the floor for treatment in Leeds, social media misinformation went crazy, not unfortunately a new thing. Remember this ?

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/do-not-believe-stranger-social-media-who-disappears-night-open-letter-our-editor-you-1746000

The Tories are busy creating an elected dictatorship but it has nothing to do with anything they’ve put in place for Covid.

This! It would be great if people could care more about the actual problems we’re facing with this government rather than a bit of cloth on their face and a couple of vaccines. Corruption and law breaking at every turn but please continue to be pissing your pants about not going to the pub being against your human rights.

@Potwoman

The thing is Mumsnet is deleting posts and throwing out posters that counter these extreme bigoted views that are saturating posts like these.

Mumsnet itself is providing a breeding ground for bigotry. They should be reported. Who do we alert about this?

I'm really not seeing this - at least not from the perspective you are. I'd see it just the opposite.

For now we are ok compared to those countries but if the haters of Labour were in charge it could be a different story.

I mean about human rights and mandates.

I agree OP. They are making masks mandatory for ages 9 to 12 in school in Ireland. The older kids already wear them. I am at my wits end with this BS. It's like people have completely lost the ability to think rationally and have become sheeple.

I was always so proud to be Irish, I'm utterly ashamed now. My Government think our children should be protecting the adults and health service even though Covid numbers are falling and granny has had her booster.

This thread is getting very predictable. Yawn.

Let's all bash the Tories, shall we and see how many people that keeps off ventilators?

Let's vote the Conservatives out and see what effect that has on NHS funding?

Good idea !

Op you are correct.

herecomes,

"Let's vote the Conservatives out and see what effect that has on NHS funding?"

That's an interesting idea considering it was Tony Blair who started dismantling the NHS

www.theguardian.com/society/2006/feb/16/health.politics

You're wasting your time OP. Mumsnet is awash with rule followers. Covid is going nowhere. Endless restrictions will only make more businesses go bust and cause even more people to experience a serious decline in mental health. All for a virus that, for the vast majority of people, is no worse than a bad cold. Time to get on with it! And as for work telling anyone what they can and can't do, with their own money, outside work - that's just laughable.

@Potwoman

I’m with you OP. Completely 100%

Thank you for starting this post

These views are extreme and startling. I don’t see anything like this kind of prejudice, stupidity and cruelty anywhere other than on Mumsnet.

Mumsnet is so busy taking down posts that are questioning all if this and yet doing nothing to address the bigotry that is being spewed out here. Why are they allowing this, I’d go as far to say encouraging this?

"extreme and startling" - due to high and rising death rates and high infections with hospitals treating increasing patients it is understandable that some measures need introducing to a) reduce hospitalisations b) reduce deaths. When the rates show that a high number of unvaccinated are getting seriously ill or dying then something has to be done.

"stupidity and cruelty" - what's stupid and cruel about attempting to save lives and reduce hospitalisations.

"Mumsnet is so busy taking down posts that are questioning all if this"
MN haven't taken down these posts, your post is still there as are others agreeing with the OP.

"obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group" Do you mean the belief that the unvaccinated are not helping and so either Germany has to do something to stop the spread...hospitalisations...deaths or just letting the unvaccinated go around not bothering to help society and yet coming up with no alternative solutions to the problem of infections/hospitalisations and death.

Wearing a mask, not attending a venue because not vaccinated and so factually more likely to spread is not a big deal in the scheme of things.

MN aren't encouraging this spewing of bigotry as you say - it's a forum where anonymous people share their opinions! Some opinions match yours and others don't, that's quite simple really.

[quote Ellen888]herecomes,

"Let's vote the Conservatives out and see what effect that has on NHS funding?"

That's an interesting idea considering it was Tony Blair who started dismantling the NHS

www.theguardian.com/society/2006/feb/16/health.politics[/quote]
Funnily enough, NHS funding did improve in the years that the Conservatives were out of power - and declined again when they got back in.

I'm not currently a Labour voter though - we lack good options in the UK.

I still think the current government are poor (but lots of natural Conservatives would agree with me)

Meh, just get vaccinated. Or if you don't want to, don't. Either way, you have your human rights to choose. The consequences of the choice is nothing to do with human rights, they are just the consequences of your choice, like a lot of other things in life.

@FMSucks

I agree OP. They are making masks mandatory for ages 9 to 12 in school in Ireland. The older kids already wear them. I am at my wits end with this BS. It's like people have completely lost the ability to think rationally and have become sheeple.

I was always so proud to be Irish, I'm utterly ashamed now. My Government think our children should be protecting the adults and health service even though Covid numbers are falling and granny has had her booster.

I'm at my wits end with people who call a group of people sheeple. Solutions to hospitalisations and reducing deaths means you think people cannot think rationally anymore.

Go on then @FMSucks take away the masks, end the restrictions and less see. What's your great plan then since us 'sheeples' are completely lost without a genius like you to impart your wisdom. Come on what does your 'research' tell the scientists they should be doing instead then

The CFR has fallen significantly since the start of the pandemic due to vaccinations and treatments and is now similar to flu, with an age profile skewed more to the elderly than flu.

I agree with OP, a pathogen which is now endemic rather than pandemic, and similar to flu in morbidity and mortality does not warrant the worrying measures seen in Europe or even the mask-wearing rules here.

The precedents are worrying. This is not Ebola.

For context I’m a double-jabbed scientist.

@trumpisagit

I think Germany will regret this decision. I am happy to have any jabs offered but making them mandatory changes things a little. Nudging people to get vaccinated may be more effective in the long term than forcing them.

This is from Angela Merkle on the issue"... our tolerance as democrats has to find its limit,”

It reminds of the Erdogan quote "Democracy is like a tram ride. When you reach your stop you get off"

We're halfway down a very slippery slope. People need to wake up. If you think you're safe because you've had taken the vaccine, think again.

If you want to talk human rights, then the right to live and a hospital bed for sick/accident/end of life etc surely trumps the right of someone to have a mildly inconvenient/safe vaccine with some possible side effects. So all those countries are doing is asking strong, fit, young, healthy people to also have a jab to protect the more vulnerable in society as a whole. I am more shocked by people expecting to not protect the health service. Anyone of us could have an accident/cancer scare etc tomorrow and need a bed.
Covid is rampant and we need to put up multiple barriers to it, end of. Vaccine is just one of them. Think of it like layers in an onion. It is a complete fallacy to rely on vaccine alone as well.

Lots of angry comments on here and I suspect that some are because everything the "conspiracy theorists" said would happen has happened and people don't like to admit it.

There was an expert on the news last night saying mandatory vaccines and not needed because the virus doesn't present problems in the majority of people and as long as the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated that should be enough.

Get vaccinated and wear a mask. It is SO FUCKING SIMPLE.

No one is out there whining about mandated seatbelt wearing, will take all the medication under the sun with NO CLUE what is in it and NO research via Dr Google and will quite happily wrap a whole scarf over their face for long periods in winter.

But a heavily researched vaccine (despite how rapidly it was made) and a thin piece of material over their faces is a huge deal. Get a grip and stop being a bunch of selfish fuckers, then maybe you can have your "freedoms"?