Wtf is going on??!!

[NearlyDown]

I actually think it’s quite scary and a bit strange the amount of people who are happy to have their human rights taken away.

For the record I’m fully vaccinated and I think that the vaccine is brilliant, but it is a medical procedure and I don’t think people that have made the decision not to have said medical procedure should then not be able to participate in society.

This is not at all normal, I can see the hospital beds are getting overwhelmed but this is likely because of viruses that haven’t been able to run through the population normally are making people very poorly.

Which means that this will happen every winter forevermore if we don’t let humans, vaccinated or not just get on with life.

@mam0918

There are ACTUAL human rights like the 'Childs right to life' (an actual international 'right' that states any child born alive is entitled to any life saving treatment that is available but which isn't being upheld due to 'after birth abortion' in several countries where children passed viability are left to suffocate, freeze or starve to death if their parents reject them) that is still being fought and lost in courts and people are moaning about masks, the offer of free medical treatment and missing parties.

No one's 'human rights' are being taken away, you aren't being killed, tortured or persecuted, no necessity is being denied to you - it's just your sense of entitlement is being challanged.

You have a right to say what gets put in your body. People may have had covid so will carry anti bodies as will vaccinated people . Both can carry and transmit . Unnecessary medical procedures for children where the risk and reward ratio don’t make sense is selfish

The meaning of the word "or" in that question is new to me
But as I say, so much to unpick, so little time! The dog really needs a wee now so I'm going to have to sign off.

@521Jeanie

Provided they won't want "medical procedures" when they become very sick with Covid then fine, they are well within their rights not to take the vaccine now.

Perhaps they should also consider taking out insurance or remortgaging their house in case they end up in hospital unnecessarily - I'm sure they wouldn't want to see the NHS out of pocket from their decision not to get vaccinated.

But then again, given they're around twice as likely to pass the virus on than an unvaccinated person, they should also commit to staying at home and away from others so they don't infect anyone else.

We ALL need to do our bit here - and that's why I got vaccinated. It's not about me, it's about our society.

Well said.

I see your point there but maybe its because you lick envelopes? They xoukd get around that though by saying they must be sealed with celotape and not saliva.

So people are now fearful that a child can catch Covid from handling an envelope that was sealed with a lick….

Like I said, the world is going bonkers…

No one else noticed this OP the 1st post by this poster under this name at least.
I wonder why?

If you want to live as part of a society you have to make sacrifices eg pay taxes, abide by laws, and now have vaccinations.

You still have a choice, no-one is going to be pinning you down and injecting you, but your choice is between having the vaccination or living with restrictions.

In other countries children need to have all their vaccinations to attend school. Again, they are given a choice as to have the vaccine or not, but there is a consequence for not having it to protect everyone else.

@Northsoutheastwest76

No one else noticed this OP the 1st post by this poster under this name at least. I wonder why?

People just change name a lot, I do as people seem to like doing AS as you obviously have done

Sigh.

It is not 32 times more unvaccinated in hospitals. It is about mortality rate. Honestly some people lol.

Between 2 January and 24 September 2021, the age-adjusted risk of deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19) was 32 times greater in unvaccinated people than in fully vaccinated individuals. Check Table 1.

@Flyonawalk - I understand what people are saying when they compare this situation with the period before the Holocaust, and I still think they are wrong. The Jewish people were persecuted over many centuries and at the time posters are referring to that existing hatred and distrust was harnessed for political ends. The existence of Jews in Germany did not have anything to do with the trouble that country was in, but existing prejudice was ready and waiting to be mobilised.

There is no equivalence here. The ‘unvaccinated’ as a group have come into existence within the last 12 months, if that, and are first and foremost self-selecting. There aren’t centuries of irrational hate seething that someone with a master plan is cynically exploiting. Instead, there is an acceptance among many people that if there do need to be further measures to combat a virus that - at this point in time - is still unpredictable and killing otherwise healthy people, it would be reasonable to focus those on people who have willingly chosen not to vaccinate.

Treating unvaccinated people differently to the vaccinated in nothing at all like unequal treatment based on ethnicity. The only questions are whether it is proportionate and reasonable.

@user1999952776

Sigh.

It is not 32 times more unvaccinated in hospitals. It is about mortality rate. Honestly some people lol.

Between 2 January and 24 September 2021, the age-adjusted risk of deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19) was 32 times greater in unvaccinated people than in fully vaccinated individuals. Check Table 1.

Sigh! So have your vaccine then and let people who don't want to live their lives. You should be happy the vaccine works - it reduces death yeh? Why is that not good enough for you?

This thread is fascinating. There are some really great folk commenting absolute sense calmly. And then there are the other end of the spectrums who are at best deeply offensive and at worst, so deeply stupid they shouldn't have rights. Luckily most are the good folk.

@Peregrina

Nazi Germany has been mentioned. But far from being boring and stupid, there is a serious debate to be had.

We don't know whether non-vaccinated people are the cause of the spread or not.

I myself would like to see much more emphasis put into finding treatments for it - so that it becomes like a heavy cold - something which is a nuisance for the majority, but not life threatening.

Mentioned and promptly deleted....

If we can't reference past events in a measured way what hope do we have of avoiding repeating them? We can't even seem to have a sensible conversation about the current situation and how to proceed with the least harm to the greatest number of people.

Scapegoating the unvaccinated and suggesting they are a somehow spreading infections, killing people and a danger to public health has very dangerous precedents. If people are unaware of this they should probably take some time to look it up.

If the ICUs are full of antivaxxers taking up the beds (with their mates swearing at the staff) then there are no beds for other people getting ill -
RTAs, post-op patients etc - so it remains a community problem.

No antivaxxer is an island

Having said that . I don't necessarily think we should be mandating vaccines, even as someone who thinks vaccines are the best thing to happen to us in the past 2 years.

It is a real dilemma.

@user1999952776

Sigh.

It is not 32 times more unvaccinated in hospitals. It is about mortality rate. Honestly some people lol.

Between 2 January and 24 September 2021, the age-adjusted risk of deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19) was 32 times greater in unvaccinated people than in fully vaccinated individuals. Check Table 1.

To be considered fully vaccinated by that link, you needed to be 21 days post second jab. Given that when the study started no one was "fully vaccinated" it's irrelevant whether we are talking numbers in hospitals or mortality rates as the mortality rate would be 100% unvaccinated. Why not post some studies in the last 2 months contrary to ones where no one at the start of the data was fully vaccinated.

The truth is we have a vaccine which doesn't last long, is considered to be less effective against new strains and may reduce transmission. It also doesn't prevent deaths as the majority of deaths are double jabbed patients- to what extent it reduces deaths is disputed.

I don't know any vaccine that has to be repeated every few months and certainly have no idea what the health impact will be mixing numerous different technologies such as MRNA pfizer with astra zenica long term. I don't believe the "experts" know either as the guidelines continually alter with one jab for kids now it's two with boosters for all contrary to it initially being only the elderly. The whole thing is an absolute circus and the longer it goes on the more glad I am to be out of it.

Regardless of what decision an individual makes, it is the decision of that person not the state... where are the government when it comes to the elderly choosing between heating and eating or the homeless etc? I don't believe they are out to harm the population but lets not pretend they act in our best interests either. The people who set out these guidelines have broken the rules themselves- Hancock probably being the main one appearing ashen faced at the lectern telling us not to see family with the deadly pandemic yet had his tongue down a strangers throat. Cummings was driving around a forest testing his eyesight and says himself the government are utterly incompetent along with himself lol.

@Northsoutheastwest76

No one else noticed this OP the 1st post by this poster under this name at least. I wonder why?

They haven't come back to the thread either.

Chockful of flying monkeys spreading their word though.

Well some of you here voted for Brexit and Johnson and here we are ...

@churchofthepoisonmind

Get vaccinated and wear a mask. It is SO FUCKING SIMPLE. When I see posts like this they make me realise I am on the right side of the argument.

So true. These types were the bullies back in school.

See uk vaccine schedule - repeated every few weeks.

And here.

The whole thing is an absolute circus and the longer it goes on the more glad I am to be out of it

Yes me too. I decided not to be vaccinated initially. I started to rethink a couple of months ago and almost reached the point where my mind had changed.

Recent events have made me reconsider again.

I can't think what the ulterior motive would be to be honest (and I'm not generally a massive conspiracy theorist) but the more time goes on the more I think there must be one and there's some other reason for the current coercion tactics to get everyone to accept a jab and boosters. The current stats, media info, briefings, actions being taken don't make any sense and are poorly or unexplained. Not for me.

@Draggondragon

This thread is fascinating. There are some really great folk commenting absolute sense calmly. And then there are the other end of the spectrums who are at best deeply offensive and at worst, so deeply stupid they shouldn't have rights. Luckily most are the good folk.

I too think there are some rather stupid and people on this thread. Possibly not the same people as you'd pick out. But I'm glad we live in a society where people's essential rights aren't based on their perceived intelligence level. I don't think anyone who says otherwise is one of the 'good folk'.

a sensible conversation about the current situation and how to proceed with the least harm to the greatest number of people.

Simple. Get vaccinated and take necessary precautions.

I don't think it's about being stupid. These issues are so complex, and changing so rapidly, that the vast majority of people at all levels of education struggle to get their heads round them. Hence the need for scientific/informed advice, even for the government.