Wtf is going on??!!

[NearlyDown]

I actually think it’s quite scary and a bit strange the amount of people who are happy to have their human rights taken away.

For the record I’m fully vaccinated and I think that the vaccine is brilliant, but it is a medical procedure and I don’t think people that have made the decision not to have said medical procedure should then not be able to participate in society.

This is not at all normal, I can see the hospital beds are getting overwhelmed but this is likely because of viruses that haven’t been able to run through the population normally are making people very poorly.

Which means that this will happen every winter forevermore if we don’t let humans, vaccinated or not just get on with life.

the link you put up is dated from January this year where the vast majority of the population were unvaccinated ( not double jabbed)
I'm not the poster of the link, but ... no, it's not from January. It's for January to September this year:

"The age-standardised mortality rate for deaths involving COVID-19 is 32 times higher for unvaccinated people than for those who received the second dose
Age-standardised mortality rates for all deaths and deaths involving COVID-19, England, deaths occurring between 2 January and 24 September 2021"

What percentage of the adult population pre 2019 vaccinated themselves against flu then for the "greater good"?

A lot of staff in the NHS did (a very large employer)

[quote Kohby190]@Dishhh not entirely true. They have been used for people in communities in NT where there have been outbreaks. The premier Michael Gunner stated that people were being held there from parts of Katherine in the NT.[/quote]

OK, thanks for that. I see that they are from remote communities too; that must be particularly complex.

We don't even routinely vaccinate for chicken pox in the UK, for example, even though it can be serious in some cases

It was "extremely scary" for the clinically vulnerable pre covid with a myriad of different viruses causing potential problems yet there wasn't a mask in sight for previous flu pandemics unless amidst your virtuous preachings you were wearing one yourself?
Yes, there were masks around in previous flu pandemics/epidemics. I was pregnant during the swine flu epidemic and people were definitely wearing masks out and about. (Obviously not as many as now)

[quote churchofthepoisonmind]Interesting paper in the Lancet. The Lancet is a respected Journal, no links with the Far Right to my knowledge
www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00258-1/fulltext?s=08#%20[/quote]
Thank you for that. Probably few will bother to read it so I’ll just paste this part here:

“High COVID-19 vaccination rates were expected to reduce transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in populations by reducing the number of possible sources for transmission and thereby to reduce the burden of COVID-19 disease. Recent data, however, indicate that the epidemiological relevance of COVID-19 vaccinated individuals is increasing. In the UK it was described that secondary attack rates among household contacts exposed to fully vaccinated index cases was similar to household contacts exposed to unvaccinated”

@BoredZelda

Well that's what we were told was the answer. Vaccines were the saviour, we were told how amazing the scientists were and so on. But now it seems that people being vaccinated to protect themselves is not enough. They also need other people to be vaccinated to protect them. The whole thing is just absurd.

Everyone who can being vaccinated is the answer to getting to a place where we can live with this virus.

“They can be vaccinated” was not an appropriate answer to the issues being faced by disabled or CEV people. Thousands of primarily young, fit and healthy people, who claim the vaccine is dangerous and flawed and problematic because of something their auntie Jean posted on Facebook, thought it was ok for this “experimental” vaccine to be injected in to millions of elderly, vulnerable and disabled people first to solve the problem of the unvaccinated not being able to meet their friends for dinner.

The removal of services and blocking of streets which restricted peoples movements is not solved by disabled people being vaccinated.

The outcome of the removal of simple restrictions like distancing and masking and proper ventilation, which really don’t impact on people, is not solved by vulnerable people being vaccinated.

Implying that anyone who has issues with the vaccine suffering side effects is talking to aunty jean on facebook is so blinkered and lacking in any self awareness words fail... do you not read threads even on this site alone of people having complications or all they all chatting to " aunty jean on fb"?

@herecomesthsun

What percentage of the adult population pre 2019 vaccinated themselves against flu then for the "greater good"?

A lot of staff in the NHS did (a very large employer)

I didn't ask how many NHS staff did as part of their remit looking after sick people, I asked how many adults where many are now crowing about anti vaxxers took the flu vaccine pre 2019?

The Lancet is a respected Journal, no links with the Far Right to my knowledge grin

The Lancet that published the first Andrew Wakefield study and took 12 years to retract it?

@OutwiththeOutCrowd

Dishhh are you saying that the girl giving her firsthand account of being sent to Howard Springs as a punishment and the experiences she had there is lying?

I'd think it is embellished. I watched her instagram videos - she seemed like a snarky teenager TBH. The rulez may not make sense to her but they are in place for a reason. Without them you'd have have parties on the porches every afternoon (no masks).

Deffo hun. Our hoomin rights are being stolen from us. I know because Tracy on Facebook and Dave down the pub said so!

NHS staff alone are a significant part of the adult population.

Also we are vaccinating increasing numbers of children against flu "for the greater good" as well, come to think of it.

So, several million people, now you ask?

@ravenmum

the link you put up is dated from January this year where the vast majority of the population were unvaccinated ( not double jabbed) I'm not the poster of the link, but ... no, it's not from January. It's for January to September this year:

"The age-standardised mortality rate for deaths involving COVID-19 is 32 times higher for unvaccinated people than for those who received the second dose
Age-standardised mortality rates for all deaths and deaths involving COVID-19, England, deaths occurring between 2 January and 24 September 2021"

It's from January including stats early this year where the vast majority of even the elderly were unvaccinated which you have even said in your own post with deaths between the 2nd of January and 24th september.

Why don't you look at current rates comparing jabbed to unjabbed which are far more relevant instead of a period where a tiny percentage of people were double jabbed. Of course there were 32 times more higher for unvaccinated people as in the first few months of this year hardly anyone was double jabbed. It's these type of stats many have swallowed up unable to actually properly understand them.

@Hodl

The two latest variants, delta and omicron, make up 'media control' as an anagram. Crazy times we're in.

Im quite shocked at what's happening in Europe, and people cheering on the draconian rules. It's created a them and us society where (some of) the vaccinated are terrified of the unvaxxed. It's absurd when you really think about it.

I am triple jabbed btw, it works as my DS is full of Covid symptoms, tested positive, but DH, DD and I have all been fine, all negative. However, I'm against mandatory jabs and the 'othering' of those who choose not to have the jab. Governments are not going to give up on their current control of the population easily, that is what really scares me. I can't see things ever getting back to normal (pre pandemic) no matter how many jabs people take.

oh FUCK you've cracked it, they were trying to sneak it in with that clever anagram but now you've spotted it, how could we all be so stupid?

@herecomesthsun

NHS staff alone are a significant part of the adult population.

Also we are vaccinating increasing numbers of children against flu "for the greater good" as well, come to think of it.

So, several million people, now you ask?

The answer you are looking for is a small minority of the adult population pre 2019 were jabbed for flu and those that were tended to be predominantly the elderly for their own protection

@BoredZelda

1.3 million hospital admissions in 2020 for alcohol related issues in the UK yet you're worried about healthy young people not taking a vaccine for a virus which will be mild for the vast majority?

Can you not be concerned about more than one thing at a time? That must be a real problem for you.

I just have an issue with hypocrisy where people claim to be concerned about the greater good with a vaccinated sticker yet glugging down alcohol at the pub with 1.3 million annual hospital admissions related to what they're doing- seems a bit disingenuous and rather silly to me.

Implying that anyone who has issues with the vaccine suffering side effects is talking to aunty jean on facebook is so blinkered and lacking in any self awareness words fail... do you not read threads even on this site alone of people having complications or all they all chatting to " aunty jean on fb"?

I’m talking about those who are refusing to be vaccinated. I’ll add “because I read threads on mumsnet that Jessie from Bognor had a sore arm for a month” to my list of reasons they are refusing.

What I do read is the actual scientifically researched and peer reviewed information about side effects, from everywhere around the world after billions of people have been vaccinated and conclude the issues are nowhere near as widespread or wide ranging as MN might have you believe.

I developed alopecia two weeks after my first dose for the first time in my life. I’ve two massive bald patches on my head and that’s a major issue for me. It’s an immune condition so stands to reason it’s related, yeah? Given the vaccine is working on the immune system.

Except that the numbers of people who have reported that as a side effect are negligible so I am either incredibly unfortunate to be this medical anomaly, or it is entirely unrelated. Either way it’s better than suffering the long term effects of COVID so I’m good with that.

Dishhh, I think she should have been reprimanded for having said she had taken a test when she had not, should have been asked to take a test and then been allowed to stay at home.

To be taken to the quarantine camp for 14 days against her will seems disproportionate to me.

@ravenmum

Older people are more likely to be vaccinated.

Let's say you have 100 older people.
90 are vaccinated and 10 are unvaccinated.
10 of the 100 people go to hospital with Covid.
8 in the hospital are vaccinated. 2 are unvaccinated.
8 out of 90 = 8.9% of the vaccinated people are in hospital.
2 out of 10 = 20% of the unvaccinated people are in hospital.

With a vaccination rate of 90% in an older age group, if 8 out of 10 hospital patients are vaccinated, that still means the unvaccinated are more than twice as likely to have to go to hospital.

Regardless of this, a vacicnated eldelry person is still more likely to take up NHS resources than an unvaccinated younger person- similar stats apply for obesity so should we start banning the elderly and obese from pubs to protect the NHS being overstretched incase they become ill?

Provided they won't want "medical procedures" when they become very sick with Covid then fine, they are well within their rights not to take the vaccine now.

Perhaps they should also consider taking out insurance or remortgaging their house in case they end up in hospital unnecessarily - I'm sure they wouldn't want to see the NHS out of pocket from their decision not to get vaccinated.

But then again, given they're around twice as likely to pass the virus on than an unvaccinated person, they should also commit to staying at home and away from others so they don't infect anyone else.

We ALL need to do our bit here - and that's why I got vaccinated. It's not about me, it's about our society.

Governments are not going to give up on their current control of the population easily, that is what really scares me

Well the Government gave up its previous "control of the population", otherwise we would still all be in a March 2020
style lockdown. Restrictions have been lifted many times throughout the pandemic. Why would the Government ever bother doing that if it wanted to keep us all under control?www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/charts/uk-government-coronavirus-lockdowns

I just have an issue with hypocrisy where people claim to be concerned about the greater good with a vaccinated sticker yet glugging down alcohol at the pub with 1.3 million annual hospital admissions related to what they're doing- seems a bit disingenuous and rather silly to me.

I also have an issue with the people who are willing to glug down alcohol at the pub with 1.3 million annual hospital admissions, with all the evidence available that it is dangerous for them, but are unwilling to take an hour out of their day to have a vaccine with all the information that it is safe to do so. Seems a bit disingenuous to me.

But I’m the wrong person to ask as my views on how to solve the alcohol issue are more hardline than most.

www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/charts/uk-government-coronavirus-lockdowns

@OutwiththeOutCrowd

Dishhh, I think she should have been reprimanded for having said she had taken a test when she had not, should have been asked to take a test and then been allowed to stay at home.

To be taken to the quarantine camp for 14 days against her will seems disproportionate to me.

It's not just disproportionate. It's absolutely insane. Australia is not communist China ffs and covid is not the plague.

Regardless of this, a vacicnated eldelry person is still more likely to take up NHS resources than an unvaccinated younger person

This is true even without vaccination or covid. It is a feature of our aging population so is pretty moot here.

@BoredZelda

Implying that anyone who has issues with the vaccine suffering side effects is talking to aunty jean on facebook is so blinkered and lacking in any self awareness words fail... do you not read threads even on this site alone of people having complications or all they all chatting to " aunty jean on fb"?

I’m talking about those who are refusing to be vaccinated. I’ll add “because I read threads on mumsnet that Jessie from Bognor had a sore arm for a month” to my list of reasons they are refusing.

What I do read is the actual scientifically researched and peer reviewed information about side effects, from everywhere around the world after billions of people have been vaccinated and conclude the issues are nowhere near as widespread or wide ranging as MN might have you believe.

I developed alopecia two weeks after my first dose for the first time in my life. I’ve two massive bald patches on my head and that’s a major issue for me. It’s an immune condition so stands to reason it’s related, yeah? Given the vaccine is working on the immune system.

Except that the numbers of people who have reported that as a side effect are negligible so I am either incredibly unfortunate to be this medical anomaly, or it is entirely unrelated. Either way it’s better than suffering the long term effects of COVID so I’m good with that.

Given that there are numerous cases reported of side effects hardly given mainstream media attention it's hardly surprising. The vaccine push is certainly in overdrive, around 10% of people haven't been vaccinated yet how many celebrities have announced that they aren't getting the vaccine- surely there must be some given 10% alone in the Uk is millions yet we all know they would be shunned and probably "cancelled" . I can't think of any as they know they would be referred to as foil hat wearers, anti vaxxers, anti christs etc etc