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What does everyone think about the banning of the unvaxxed in Germany?
600

Katieandthekids · 02/12/2021 21:33

I'm just interested in opinions. I personally believe that no one should ever force anyone to put something in their body.

Just as a side: I had both vaccines during my pregnancy and still not 100% sure I've done the right thing but in balance and after lots of my research believe 99% that it is fine. Totally respect the reasons people are nervous about it though.

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supermoonrising · 02/12/2021 22:45

Segregating parts of the population that you disagree with and limiting their freedom of movement has been done before in Germany in living memory

I find allusions to WW2 era pretty distasteful to be honest. For a start, restrictions on the unvaccinated are currently common in countries the whole world over. So singling out Germany seems pretty weird.

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userperuser · 02/12/2021 22:46

Oh save it will you cherin it’s hardly a bloody conspiracy theory if it’s happening that shit clearly doesn’t wash anymore.

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TinaYouFatLard · 02/12/2021 22:46

You cannot mandate something that carries its own risks to health. I don’t care how tiny the risk is.

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userperuser · 02/12/2021 22:47

@supermoonrising

Segregating parts of the population that you disagree with and limiting their freedom of movement has been done before in Germany in living memory

I find allusions to WW2 era pretty distasteful to be honest. For a start, restrictions on the unvaccinated are currently common in countries the whole world over. So singling out Germany seems pretty weird.

It isn’t. It’s the mindset that led to that fiasco.
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Lorriestakingppe · 02/12/2021 22:47

All you supporting this remember you did when you need your papers to leave your home. Not a conspiracy theorist but very very scared of the clearly visible route this is leading to.

I think that makes you a conspiracy theorist with bells on Hmm

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WhenSheWasBad · 02/12/2021 22:47

Once the government have this kind of control they can turn it on anything

I know, next thing you will need some kind of licence to drive a car and documentation to leave the country.
I had to pick a parcel up the other day, can you believe I was asked for ID?


On a more serious note. Last year I had to call 999 for my son. Caller said they would send an ambulance immediately. 30 seconds later, the caller asked me if I could drive him in instead. No ambulances free.

I’m more worried about the health service becoming swamped than needing a pass to get into a non essential shop or pub.

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supermoonrising · 02/12/2021 22:48

Therefore not every person who chooses not to be vaccinated or have another booster vaccine is going to end up in icu
Of course not. But the stats speak for themselves. And most health services in Europe run close to capacity in a GOOD year (especially in winter). It doesn't need to be "every person". 1 in 1000 could push NHS capability over the edge.

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TheNoonBell · 02/12/2021 22:48

We are all just sitting here watching the end of the liberal western civilisation.

Like a car crash in slow motion and we are just at the beginning of the show.

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SickAndTiredAgain · 02/12/2021 22:49

@MrsSkylerWhite

Would you feel the same way were it malaria?

Vaccines are a gift.

What an odd comparison. Of all the many horrible diseases you could have used, malaria doesn’t spread person to person so no transmission would be prevented by restrictions on people mixing.
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Lorriestakingppe · 02/12/2021 22:50

We are all just sitting here watching the end of the liberal western civilisation.

Like a car crash in slow motion and we are just at the beginning of the show.

Jesus, do you realise how melodramatic you sound? Get a bloody grip fgs

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SequinsandStiIettos · 02/12/2021 22:50

I think it's fair enough and if the government had any balls in this country they'd do it too.

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XenoBitch · 02/12/2021 22:51

@SequinsandStiIettos

I think it's fair enough and if the government had any balls in this country they'd do it too.

What would your limit be? For some right now, it is a jab. What is your limit?
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supermoonrising · 02/12/2021 22:52

@userperuser
It isn’t. It’s the mindset that led to that fiasco
Not really though, is it? The groups targeted by the Nazis were scapegoats. They did not present any danger. If however the weight of science shows that "Behaviour Undertaken (or not in this case) by Group x" DOES present a danger to the rest of the society, why shouldn't action be taken?

People who have had 3 pints of beer are restricted from driving a car or collecting a child from school. Is it an infringement on their liberty? - sure. But a rational and necessary one.

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littlebilliie · 02/12/2021 22:53

@TheNoonBell

We are all just sitting here watching the end of the liberal western civilisation.

Like a car crash in slow motion and we are just at the beginning of the show.

Totally disagree if we had no social media the majority would have been vaccinated
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Lostinacloud · 02/12/2021 22:54

@WhenSheWasBad that’s the problem. You’re not worried about showing a pass to get into a pub or a shop because you’re vaccinated and it won’t affect you. But what if one of the boosters causes you to be seriously unwell and you don’t want another one. Or what if one of your children suffered a serious side effect and you didn’t want to give them any further boosters? This means you can no longer meet a friend at a restaurant or pub and nor can you go out as a family because your child isn’t up to date with their 6th booster. Now it affects you, still ok with that?
And I was with a friend about 4 years ago who waited about 5 hours for an ambulance, this is nothing new sadly.

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tilder · 02/12/2021 22:54

What is your limit?

Compulsory education in critical thinking, basic statistics and an introduction to 'How to spot bollocks on the internet'.

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userperuser · 02/12/2021 22:56

[quote supermoonrising]@userperuser
It isn’t. It’s the mindset that led to that fiasco
Not really though, is it? The groups targeted by the Nazis were scapegoats. They did not present any danger. If however the weight of science shows that "Behaviour Undertaken (or not in this case) by Group x" DOES present a danger to the rest of the society, why shouldn't action be taken?

People who have had 3 pints of beer are restricted from driving a car or collecting a child from school. Is it an infringement on their liberty? - sure. But a rational and necessary one.[/quote]
The ideology is the same.

And it’s not harming anyone living their day to day life to have laws that restrict drink driving as there are many alternatives for the person needing transport therefore, the drink driver has options.

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doradoo · 02/12/2021 22:57

@Postdatedpandemic

Germany has run out of ICU beds.
Should they do a total lockdown?
or
Just a slight impediment of the unvaccinated?

Germany has not run out of ICU beds- we have the highest per capita number of icu beds in Europe - some parts of Germany are under pressure hospital-wise , but it's a minority. Our rates are generally the same or lower than the UK- currently about 430/100000 - in my very industrialized built up region it's only 260/100000 - but it's enough for the Germans to be concerned and taking steps.

I'm vaxed as is DH and DS1. DS2 due his second on Monday. DD not old enough yet. We're basically carrying on as normal- nothing we as a family can't do - I'm not happy about an "impfpflicht" or mandatory vaccine - but realistically what can we do if we want to participate fully?
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userperuser · 02/12/2021 22:58

Lostinacloud

About 10 years ago a friend’s mother was left in an A&E corridor with a perforated bowel at deaths door and in agony, it’s nothing new.

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Jellykat · 02/12/2021 23:02

On the flip side, if the argument for mandatory vaccines come to fruition, because we are protecting NHS services.. how many workers will leave those NHS and Care services i wonder?
I know 3 for starters..

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LookNorthbyNorthWest · 02/12/2021 23:02

Fair play to them, I say. I understand that some people are literally willing to die on the anti-vax hill, but I'm not sure why they should be allowed to screw the economy, break the healthcare system and endanger the lives of sensible people.

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BlueskiesAbove · 02/12/2021 23:02

@Lorriestakingppe

ITS NOT ABOUT PROTECTING OTHER PEOPLE, ITS ABOUT KEEPING THE UNVACCINATED OUT OF HOSPITAL BECAUSE THE HOSPITALS CANT COPE.

Fuck me it’s not difficult, and they wonder why anti vaxxers are called thick.

This 100 times over....^^^

You realise that

- There are more admissions to hospitals in 2020 for alcohol/diet related factors than covid?

- The majority of people in hospital are vaccinated?
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cherin · 02/12/2021 23:02

@tilder

What is your limit?

Compulsory education in critical thinking, basic statistics and an introduction to 'How to spot bollocks on the internet'.

Love it!!

I don’t think it’ll be enough, though. I know really clever people who fell for anti vax conspiracy theories. And I know of people in covid wards who are still denying of covid (this reported by a relative who works in covid ICU). I don’t know if this society can still establish a difference between truth and opinions. I’m afraid it’s an “alternative facts” world, where people have soooo deep fears that they cling to online groups the same way people used to cling to religious sects, shamans and superstitions. Fear of not having an identity? Fear of blending in? Need to feel different, smarter, superior, more perceptive? It’s beyond logic and rescue for me
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BlueskiesAbove · 02/12/2021 23:03

@TinaYouFatLard

You cannot mandate something that carries its own risks to health. I don’t care how tiny the risk is.

Indeed, any society that does is going down a very dangerous road
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Lostinacloud · 02/12/2021 23:03

@userperuser yep. Even during last summer when we were supposed to still be protecting the vulnerable and cases and hospitalisations were low, my 89 year old DGM was left for 3 days nil by mouth waiting for an operation that never came. It was only because my DF basically forced his way onto the ward and demanded to take her home for palliative care that she is still with us today at 90! It’s the NHS that needs huge funding not everybody’s DCs that needs a covid vaccine.

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