Germany bans unvaccinated from shops and pubs.

[Ratched]

We really are going to end up with a two tier society. It's actually quite worrying.

I am NOT anti vaxx, just concerned at how we are sleep walking into giving away our hard won freedoms.

[quote WinterKit]@churchofthepoisonmind oh come on. We had a lot of freedoms taken away last winter and returned when infection and death rates dropped in the summer.
I would only agree with mandates in a crisis situation is my point. It’s the lesser of two evils.
Forced vaccination - I can’t see ANY European country holding people down and jabbing them. I can see that might be against the law for a period of time to do certain activities that might harm others.
Holding down, forcing, jabbing = completely inflammatory.[/quote]
If something is mandatory then it would surely need an element of enforcement. I agree that it's (hopefully) unlikely that they will resort to holding people down and jabbing them but how would you propose it should be enforced? I will not take the vaccine under coercion or pressure so do you think I should be repeatedly fined until I give in or lose my home & belongings or would you prefer I was imprisoned until I see sense? Alternatively, do you agree with me that maybe they should be looking at other ways to handle the hospital crisis - i.e. not creating situations where elderly cannot be moved into carehomes as a sizeable proportion of staff have been forced out and not taking up GP time with repeatedly jabbing healthy under 40s who are statiscally unlikely to need hospital care? You talk about cohesion but that's something that can only be reached with discussion and agreement not by enforcing your viewpoint on others and criminalising them.

If you're in the UK I'm not sure why you're speculating about any of these measures @nojudgementhere

Right now it's not mandatory for anyone, bar certain professions, to be vaccinated

We are not comparable to Australia, and I hope they are able to increase their vaccination rate without applying any of these policies

*Austria!

@riveted1

*Austria!

Thank you, from Australia!

@nojudgementhere Why are you determined not to have the vaccine? I'm always so surprised when somebody says or implies they'd be willing to pay multiple fines (or even go to prison! ) because of an issue like this. I think it's very unlikely we'll ever have a vaccine mandate, but if we did (hypothetically), do you think you would hold to your views in practice? Would you actually be willing to go as far as courting an avoidable custodial sentence?

[quote Innocenta]@nojudgementhere Why are you determined not to have the vaccine? I'm always so surprised when somebody says or implies they'd be willing to pay multiple fines (or even go to prison! ) because of an issue like this. I think it's very unlikely we'll ever have a vaccine mandate, but if we did (hypothetically), do you think you would hold to your views in practice? Would you actually be willing to go as far as courting an avoidable custodial sentence? [/quote]
Yes I absolutely would be prepared to hold to my views and would go to prison if necessary. I think there's little point in having principles if you are not going to stick to them when things get tough. Personally I'm shocked by the amount of people who would claim they are pro bodily autonomy and pro democracy yet are willing to ditch all of these when fear takes over. You either believe in something or you don't. And the reason I'm concerned with what is going on in Austria, even though I don't live there, is because my concern for civil liberties and human rights does not exclude people from other countries!

Ridiculous as the double jabbed can still catch & spread it.

What next, let’s start rounding up the smokers, drinkers & obese as collectively they put strains on public health services?

@riveted1

If you're in the UK I'm not sure why you're speculating about any of these measures *@nojudgementhere*

Right now it's not mandatory for anyone, bar certain professions, to be vaccinated

We are not comparable to Australia, and I hope they are able to increase their vaccination rate without applying any of these policies

Yes @riveted because no country ever took its lead from another country ever did they? Of course people are going to speculate on these issues, what planet are you on?

Yes because no country ever took its lead from another country ever did they? Of course people are going to speculate on these issues, what planet are you on?

Easy there, you seem to be ignoring the rest of my comment @nojudgementhere

I pointed out that vaccination is not mandated for anyone in the uk (bar specific occupations) and that we are not comparable to Germany or Austria

These are countries that desperately need to get their vaccination rates up, and are having to resort to considering strict, damaging policies. The UK is not in that situation, and the government have repeatedly shown throughout the pandemic they don't want to enforce anything, they just give confusing guidlines.

@MummyPop00

Ridiculous as the double jabbed can still catch & spread it.

What next, let’s start rounding up the smokers, drinkers & obese as collectively they put strains on public health services?

Infection& transmission is significantly reduced, as in hospitlisation and death

Alcohol abuse & obesity are not expontentially infectious (nor are they infectious at all), and we have many existing public health policies in place to try and reduce these issues. Even put together though, they don't come close to the potential burden coronavirus does currently on healthcare systems.

Ridiculous as the double jabbed can still catch & spread it.
That is nothing new.
think the point is that the double jabbed are far less likely to need hospital treatment, and there is mounting evidence that they are far less likely to transmit - due to reduced viral load.
Exactly that is the point.
How can people not understand that? It's been said a billion times.
My anti-vac anti-mask friend cannot grasp it. I'm wondering if she's any thinking skills banging on about the pointless vaccine.

How many times does it need to be said that comparisons like this are offensive and upsetting to the Jewish community - they have repeatedly spoken out about this @churchofthepoisonmind

I'm guessing you're not someone who actively campaigns against racism & anti-Semitism, but it's just useful when you're trying to back up a flawed point

Has this happened in UK? Nope

Will worry about it if it does but I fully respect a persons right not to have the jab

The fun bit comes when they try to fly abroad, enter another country

My guess is, no jab, sorry you can get on the aircraft or enter the country

Yes. Deeply offensive. This thread will be zapped, too, if you keep it up I expect.

You had a brief moment of sanity yesterday, poison, when you realised/were informed of the dire situation that Germany is facing this winter - it is a pity you cannot retain that.

If the Government tried to leave a group of people unvaccinated as a control group, they would not get the concept past an ethics committee as the jab has been shown to be very effective. Luckily we have a volunteer control group to help prove data about vaccine efficiency so no problem with ethics.

@Postdatedpandemic

If the Government tried to leave a group of people unvaccinated as a control group, they would not get the concept past an ethics committee as the jab has been shown to be very effective. Luckily we have a volunteer control group to help prove data about vaccine efficiency so no problem with ethics.

Yes seen a couple of posters say that because this isn't being done, they won't be vaccinated

You can't incentivise a group of people to make a decision associated with negative health consequences - that's the case for any study

Thank you to everyone, throughout the thread, who has challenged or reported the recurrent offensive comparisons between modern democratic societies and Nazi Germany. Such claims trivialise immense suffering and loss of life in a way that is not only harmful, but actively disrespectful to many minority communities.

I wish they would do that here unless it's for medical reasons. I really don't feel safe around unvaccinated people.

@MissCruellaDeVil - I'm afraid that's more down to your own paranoia and prejudice. Who would you rather be stuck in a lift with? An unvaccinated person who lived a quiet, solitary life & had already recovered from Covid or somebody who'd had their jabs but was merrily out clubbing every night, snogging strangers?

@Innocenta - I personally wouldn't compare the situation we find ourselves in now with the Holocaust as I know it offends people & immediately derails any argument. However, I find it really difficult to accept that if I were Jewish, and that people were genuinely concerned that world leaders were starting to act in an increasingly dictatoral manner, that I want the argument immediately shut down and their voices silenced. I don't think it's impossible that something like the Holocaust could happen again at some point in the future and therefore staying vigilant to any signs of intolerance or discrimination is surely a good thing and something we should all support?