Thoughts on mandatory vaccination?

[IllGetTheNextRound]

I'm a healthcare professional and I've heard from both colleagues and patients that vaccinations should be mandatory.

This to me is concerning for a few reasons. One of the main reasons is that I think as a public health policy this is really problematic because we are mandating a healthcare intervention on an individual level which takes away their autonomy. And what about children? Compared to many other countries our vaccination uptake is generally excellent. Indeed there is definitely room for improvement, but I worry that mandating this would deter people who otherwise would consider it.

Having said that I'm very pro vaccination and I want as many people to be vaccinated as possible. I have educated many patients and advocated for greater uptake of childhood vaccinations.

If you're passionate about one side of the debate I'd love to hear your thoughts.

@Cariah

Oops posted too soon! Your right to swing your arm ends when your fist hits my face. And your right to refuse a vaccine ends when that causes a spread of disease that negatively affects me. People can’t be permitted to do what they want if it hurts others.

So you are quite happy for sale cars to be banned immediately unless they are purely charged by solar panels? Because emissions from exhausts and power stations hurt people.

I work in healthcare. Have had all vaccinations etc etc.

I'm against mandatory vaccinations and was against the mandatory vaccinations in the sector.

People seem totally ok with it when it's other people, especially when it was a condition of employment. Apparently if I hadn't wanted the vaccine I could have just 'got another job' which is ridiculous. Currently pregnant and the main wage earner in our house. It's not just a choice of job for some people, it's the basis of our whole lives. Without my income we'd lose our home.

Mandatory vaccination is one step too far. However people who decline vaccination need to accept that some of their choices may be limited.

Vaccination isn't without risk. You have to balance risk vs benefit to decide if its worth it. Forcing someone to accept the risks seems morally wrong to me, although I think overall the benefit is bigger than the risk.

Having consequences for not vaccinating seems a moderate response if its within societies interest, like travel restrictions.

I am double jabbed and am also eligible for a free flu jab, which I have every year. Unfortunately, I had a bad allergic / immune response reaction to the 2nd Pfizer jab, which now means I can't have an MRNA type booster. Making a vaccine mandatory, without offering an alternative, isn't feasible.

I also think that segregating society according to vaccine status is outrageous and a frightening precedent.

Another poster linked to this article on another thread. It pretty much sums up where I am right now. It's worth a read.

unherd.com/2021/11/how-fear-fuels-the-vaccine-wars/

It's a really difficult one. I don't support mandatory vaccination but currently my hospital is unable to provide quite a range of medical care because its so busy with Covid (each patient equires 4 x as much space and resources as one e.g. cancer patient) a loose approximate to give an idea of why its crashing the NHS. Standing up a new ward this week just to cope. So that is impacting on the local population significantly leaving us no choice. 75% of NHS beds being given to unvacinnated people

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-59405471

Absolutely not. What else should be mandatory? Contraception would save the NHS a lot of money. Or abortion if your unborn child has serious health issues - that would save money and free up beds / operating theatres. Conversely of course if we worry about falling population numbers we could ban contraception.

Don't tell me none of these are being proposed - the point is that the reason they're not is that we value bodily autonomy. Undermine that with mandatory vaccines and the next mandatory thing might be something you don't want either.

Nope nope nope.
I am pro-vax, but also pro-choice.

It is a very dangerous step imho. If you can force citizens of a democracy to get a vaccine, what else can you force them to do against their will...

Everyone should have a choice, but they have to accept their could be consequences, ie no access or only with a negative test to indoor venues. For their own protection and to limit pressure on the NHS, their risks at catching covid need to be reduced.

Illegal and immoral

"Everyone should have a choice, but they have to accept their could be consequences, ie no access or only with a negative test to indoor venues. For their own protection and to limit pressure on the NHS, their risks at catching covid need to be reduced."

That really shows how selfish you are, you would leave people to die to make your point.

Sickening.

@Tinysnickers

Nope nope nope. I am pro-vax, but also pro-choice.

It is a very dangerous step imho. If you can force citizens of a democracy to get a vaccine, what else can you force them to do against their will...

This line of argument doesn’t stack up because there are various mandatory vaccinations around the world already. Hasn’t led to citizens being forced to do anything else so far.

Anyone in favour of mandatory vaccinations is bonkers

Smallpox vaccination was mandatory in the UK in 1853, so we’ve been on this dangerous slippery slope that everyone’s so worried about for a long time already.

“Cowpox served as a natural vaccine until the modern smallpox vaccine emerged in the 20th century. From 1958 to 1977, the World Health Organization conducted a global vaccination campaign that eradicated smallpox, making it the only human disease to be eradicated.”

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox_vaccine

I also fear where society will slide to if we go down the route of mandating medical procedures.

It is different from a law about, say, wearing seatbelts. That is mandating a behaviour, not insisting someone injects something known to cause death and harm.

The ‘swinging arm’ analogy is an old one. Pretty much everything we do affects society as a whole.

Deny a person’s right to choose what is done to their body, and ultimately assault no longer holds up as an offence in law. Someone said No and it was done anyway? It’s the same principal (though not degree) as insisting on vaccination to someone who has said No.

As I just pointed out - we’ve done it before. Where did society slide to as a consequence?

Also mandatory vaccination is not the same as coercive vaccination; no one would be forcibly injected!

And by the way, I’m not passionate either way, it’s clearly complex.

Great post@GreenWhiteViolet. I’m totally against mandatory vaccinations too.

[quote Beachcomber]I also think that segregating society according to vaccine status is outrageous and a frightening precedent.

Another poster linked to this article on another thread. It pretty much sums up where I am right now. It's worth a read.

unherd.com/2021/11/how-fear-fuels-the-vaccine-wars/[/quote]
People still linking to the right wing, anti-vax, funded by ex politicians cesspit that is Unherd?

Absolutely against it. Governments around the world, now have the power to decide what, and when, has to be injected into our bodies.

Give over with the analogy too. Shame people weren't so morally superior about behaviours and actions hurting others before now.

[quote custardcreme]Smallpox vaccination was mandatory in the UK in 1853, so we’ve been on this dangerous slippery slope that everyone’s so worried about for a long time already.

“Cowpox served as a natural vaccine until the modern smallpox vaccine emerged in the 20th century. From 1958 to 1977, the World Health Organization conducted a global vaccination campaign that eradicated smallpox, making it the only human disease to be eradicated.”

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox_vaccine[/quote]
The fatality rate of smallpox was massive compared to covid.

Also mandatory vaccination is not the same as coercive vaccination; no one would be forcibly injected

Coercion is "practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats"
Have the jab or lose your job, most definitely is Coercion.

I’m strongly against it. Taking away body anatomy is dangerous, and let’s face it, it will only spiral from there with women and the minority groups being thrown to the wolves first.