Thoughts on mandatory vaccination?

[IllGetTheNextRound]

I'm a healthcare professional and I've heard from both colleagues and patients that vaccinations should be mandatory.

This to me is concerning for a few reasons. One of the main reasons is that I think as a public health policy this is really problematic because we are mandating a healthcare intervention on an individual level which takes away their autonomy. And what about children? Compared to many other countries our vaccination uptake is generally excellent. Indeed there is definitely room for improvement, but I worry that mandating this would deter people who otherwise would consider it.

Having said that I'm very pro vaccination and I want as many people to be vaccinated as possible. I have educated many patients and advocated for greater uptake of childhood vaccinations.

If you're passionate about one side of the debate I'd love to hear your thoughts.

@ollyollyoxenfree yeah it’s really tiring at this point

Ah OK. Is your point that much of the information from the speeded up run in parallel initial clinical trials is out of date?

That we can agree on.

Perhaps it would be more useful to post and discuss current information then?

So you are asking me to change how the vaccine was developed? How can that be out of date? What are you talking about?

I don't agree with it and also think it would be an absolute nightmare to police.

The exception is NHS and other health & social care staff. They should be vaccinated because of the nature of their roles in healthcare settings and with vulnerable people.

I do agree with vaccine passports and putting limitations on those who choose not to be vaccinated, for the safety of the wider population.

Sorry if this has been posted before I haven't RTFT. But I was very surprised by the majority of comments attached to this article in the Guardian.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/02/omicron-restrictions-prejudice-against-unvaccinated-people-virus#comments

I don't think the author got the reaction she was expecting.

@Beachcomber

Ah OK. Is your point that much of the information from the speeded up run in parallel initial clinical trials is out of date?

That we can agree on.

Perhaps it would be more useful to post and discuss current information then?

You've ignored all replies to this thus far, so not sure if me adding will help

You seem convinced that you were given incorrect information, when it's just a simple explanation that the original efficacy was higher in trials than it is now, due to the new emergent variants of coronavirus. I don't think anyone is trying to claim vaccines have 95% efficacy in the current context, so not sure why it's relevant.

If something doesn't make sense to you it can be good to read up on it first (or read the replies you get on the forum), before proclaiming you've been lied to

I see the usual suspects are doing their best to derail this thread which is about mandatory vaccination and whether or not it is correct and/or ethical. It seems to me many people are conflicted on this. Instinctively, they know threatening people with fines or jail for not taking a jab is just wrong and disgusting and moronic on so many levels one does not know where to start.
On the other hand, many folk have gone along with lockdowns, with the 'we must not question the 'experts'' narrative, with the idea that big pharma has our best interests at heart, and so on - and now they feel they must also go along with mandates.
This must be tough, psychologically!

@ConcernedAuntie

Sorry if this has been posted before I haven't RTFT. But I was very surprised by the majority of comments attached to this article in the Guardian.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/02/omicron-restrictions-prejudice-against-unvaccinated-people-virus#comments

I don't think the author got the reaction she was expecting.

What do you mean? I think the author got exactly the response she wanted which was to scapegoat the unvaccinated and normalise the blaming of them for the current hospital crisis.

I think it's odd and irresponsible that so many of the vitriolic and nasty Guardian comments have been allowed to stand to be honest. This kind of blatant hate speech would rightly not be allowed against any other section of society. And before anybody jumps in with 'they don't have protected characteristics' or 'they could choose to do what they are told' is this really the point? Bullying is bullying and it should stop because it's detrimental to people's mental health. Also, there are a fair number of unvaccinated who are from groups with protected characteristics so they're now facing double prejudice 'all for the greater good'.

@nojudgementhere the Guardian lost the plot right at the start of this pandemic and never really found it again. It's lead writers have been agitating for more and more restrictions all way through, even though numerous reports suggest restrictions and lockdowns hit the working class hardest. Joke of a paper.

@churchofthepoisonmind

I see the usual suspects are doing their best to derail this thread which is about mandatory vaccination and whether or not it is correct and/or ethical. It seems to me many people are conflicted on this. Instinctively, they know threatening people with fines or jail for not taking a jab is just wrong and disgusting and moronic on so many levels one does not know where to start. On the other hand, many folk have gone along with lockdowns, with the 'we must not question the 'experts'' narrative, with the idea that big pharma has our best interests at heart, and so on - and now they feel they must also go along with mandates. This must be tough, psychologically!

Yes

Misinformation about the vaccines - ie safety and efficacy- is not helpful to the discussion

@riveted1

I don't think I have said that I think we have been lied to. Certainly that isn't what I think.

I think that the vaccine is working rather differently in a real world situation than it worked in clinical trials. I don't think that is particularly surprising and I don't have a problem with that. As you say, the situation is evolving and new variants are emerging.

What I do take issue with is that I don't see a similar evolution in public health policy or in the vaccination program.

The only solution which seems to be being proposed to solve the issues of the vaccine performing less well in the field than it did in the trials is more vaccination. With a leaky vaccine. During a pandemic. The potential result of which could be to create an environment which will give vaccine resistant mutants competitive advantage.

And then what will we do? Vaccinate more? That seems to be the plan.

The situation has the potential to develop into the opposite of herd immunity.

[quote CrunchyCarrot]I don't know what will potentially be next. More vaccines?

I believe so, as the govt has just bought another 114 million doses of Pfizer and Moderna for the next two years.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-59501192[/quote]
Good God.

More vaccines and boosters for everyone.

Should they be mandatory? A resounding No. The state does not own an individual's body.