Are you really prepared to take every single vaccine

[Talsaml]

It worries me that we may have to keep having vaccines going forward. I’m due my booster which I will take but I’m hearing that AZ are in the process of tweaking the current vaccine to combat the new strain. So we are then required to take another booster. Many variants can crop up, suppose another one does very soon. I’m concerned about the number of vaccines we could be taking. Is anyone else? And no I’m not an anti vaxer.

Just seen this:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/myocarditis-and-pericarditis-after-covid-19-vaccination/myocarditis-and-pericarditis-after-covid-19-vaccination-guidance-for-healthcare-professionals

On the Newscast podcast I remember some expert saying that after a certain point (can't remember what), it would be possible to reduce it to a yearly Covid vaccine. That is, the current short intervals would not be required forever.

Can't find that out by Googling, though, and I don't know if that point is still valid. Does anyone else know more?

@Toomanyscentedcandles

Ah yes sorry about that. I meant to quote another poster saying the issue of unvaccinated people filling up ICU is what worries her.

Oh, I missed that. But does it make a difference if they have other health issues, if it is Covid that means they have to be there? Don't know about the UK, but where I am, the figures make it clear that it is a rise in the number of Covid patients that's putting strain on the hospitals.

@ravenmum

On the Newscast podcast I remember some expert saying that after a certain point (can't remember what), it would be possible to reduce it to a yearly Covid vaccine. That is, the current short intervals would not be required forever.

Can't find that out by Googling, though, and I don't know if that point is still valid. Does anyone else know more?

I heard the the corona virus vaccine will eventually be given with two dosis as many other childhood vaccines are given including the HPV vaccine which is already eradicating all kinds of cervical cancer.

It's going to take a few years but it will happen. Corona viruses are quite stable unlike the flu virus.

But on the first NHS point - I know others have a differing opinion but I have never been able to get adequate care on the NHS until something reaches crisis point - and still then I haven't 9/10 and have either had to go private or muddle along untreated. So to me a collapsed NHS is what it has always been. Its just how I feel from my experience

It’s impossible (imho) to not recognise that the NHS has a great many failings but it’s what we have. Unless/until it’s reformed and/or replaced it’s all we’ve got. Private doesn’t cover emergency care nor every kind of care needed. There’s no private option to replace a&e, the ambulance service, emergency surgery, ICU and that’s what’s suffering with covid pressures.

Longer term/non-life threatening but life affecting conditions I’d agree that if people can they should investigate private options but even private is struggling at the moment because we simply don’t have the healthcare infrastructure regardless of how it’s funded.

Also the evidence is that countries with strong private healthcare systems are experiencing the same issues. It seems that there isn’t a healthcare set-up globally that can cope with the numbers of people that need it/can access it due to covid. I suspect healthcare provisions globally will have to be marginally raised to accommodate covid longer term.

I feel that you’re not fully grasping that it isn’t just about ‘the NHS’ as it’s been branded. That’s just short hand. It’s about access to modern medicine. You might think you don’t need it but no one thinks they do until they’re in a car crash, have a heart attack or have a stroke. The NHS wasn’t great in 2019, but this is another level.

@Cornettoninja

You say this - "They’re not foolproof but the chances of mutation are heavily diminished with the use of vaccines."

Do we know that for sure?

AFAIK it has been widely accepted in the past that "leaky" vaccines which do not prevent contraction and transmission of disease are a significant factor in virus mutation.

Do we have any reason to think that covid vaccines and the covid19 virus are different?

I don't believe that we do. Which is worrying.

Yes, I'm prepared to take them all. COVID and others alike. The sooner the better.
Vaccines have proven to work for over a 100 years now.

Next question.

it sounds crazy to prefer to be with unvaccinated people but at least I am more likely to see they are ill!

Trouble is that if they're coughing then they're also more likely fill the air with virus quickly than someone who is infected but not coughing. Coughing shoots out air from deep in the lungs. Or maybe I'm wrong - do you have any figures that show you're less likely to catch covid by mixing with unvaccinated people and just noticing that they are ill?

I think this will just go on forever and at some point we are going to have to stop with the restrictions.

Yes it will go on for the foreseeable future but no, there is no "have to stop with the restrictions" and certainly not without vacciantion. It's a balance of harm, and the fewer people are vaccinated the more that balance switches towards using restrictions instead to keep the health system going. I prefer vaccination to restrictions for all sorts of reasons but we wont be able to do nothing at all and pretend it doesn't exist.

[quote Beachcomber]@Cornettoninja

You say this - "They’re not foolproof but the chances of mutation are heavily diminished with the use of vaccines."

Do we know that for sure?

AFAIK it has been widely accepted in the past that "leaky" vaccines which do not prevent contraction and transmission of disease are a significant factor in virus mutation.

Do we have any reason to think that covid vaccines and the covid19 virus are different?

I don't believe that we do. Which is worrying.[/quote]
Yes this is widely accepted - have posted before on why Geert Vanden Bossche et al's speculation on this has been dismissed

A virus can only mutate when it is replicating, as this when it's genetic material is copied, and mistakes can be made.

Replication only happens when someone is infected. The quicker and more efficiently the virus is cleared, the less chance there is for it to acquire mutations. A greater level of immunity will enable this to happen quicker - which is gained by vaccination.

AFAIK it has been widely accepted in the past that "leaky" vaccines which do not prevent contraction and transmission of disease are a significant factor in virus mutation.

Not when compared to a wholely unvaccinated population.

Any level of immunity is better than none when minimising the risk of mutation - see above.

[quote Beachcomber]@Cornettoninja

You say this - "They’re not foolproof but the chances of mutation are heavily diminished with the use of vaccines."

Do we know that for sure?

AFAIK it has been widely accepted in the past that "leaky" vaccines which do not prevent contraction and transmission of disease are a significant factor in virus mutation.

Do we have any reason to think that covid vaccines and the covid19 virus are different?

I don't believe that we do. Which is worrying.[/quote]
Honestly I don’t have any evidence I could point you to. I’m not saying it doesn’t exist, I simply haven’t looked for it/saved any links I’ve come across. A vaccination which lessens a disease logically reduces the amount of time it can freely replicate in the body, but I take your point. It is concerning but what’s the alternative?

What I would say is that a high percentage of vaccines that are currently in use are also ‘leaky’ and still afford us a great deal of protection compared to the time before their existence. Off the top of my head, mumps is particularly shit (60% effective against transmission). Of course we also have a relatively high degree of natural immunity of other diseases in the population alongside vaccines which is also beneficial. We can’t forget that one of the factors that makes covid dangerous is the fact it’s a novel disease and even two years in, natural immunity is still rare.

It’s quite hard to judge how much benefit will be derived from covid vaccines whilst globally rates continue to be high. If the covid vaccines are comparable to other vaccines in common use then there’s no reason to think that eventually we can’t control it to the same degree as a disease like mumps. I suspect that if this was a mumps pandemic of the same magnitude we’d be seeing similar issues with mutations and vaccine escape.

[quote nojudgementhere]@OllyollyOxenfree - Sorry but I don't really agree with this. As far as I'm aware, the reason two doses weren't given to Under 18s was because the risk of pericarditis and myocarditis (particularly in boys) was considered too much of a risk for it to be in their best interest. These rules have now been changed very quickly and with very little explanation & yet nobody seems to be worried![/quote]
At the news conference they said there was now much more evidence of the safety in under 18s than when the original decision was made.

As to mutations these have been thought to occur in immunocompromised patients who are very ill for a very long time with covid and the virus is able to mutate within that person.
Ultimately the less virus there is around the less chance it has to mutate.

I thought we were majority vaccinated though? Isn't it around 85%?

Thats pretty good to me and I am not sure how much better you can hope for.

That 85% figure is only the population over 12 years old. I’m not sure what % the under 12’s make up but it makes quite a dent in that percentage figure.

I dont really understand wanting to vaccinate under 12s who are otherwise healthy. Its not to protect them, it doesn't 'protect' the NHS because they weren't ending up in ICU anyway, and it doesn't stop infection/ transmission.

Honestly I can understand the want to try to make it someone elses fault - them not doing this, or this person not doing that. But most people have done what they needed too do. Most did lockdown, washed their hands, wore masks, isolated, social distanced and got vaccinated etc. The majority have tried and they still cant stop COVID. Which is scarier in a way than it all being the fault of the great unwashed/unvaxxed - so I can understand those who don't want to confront that.

My husband is in the military, he has a vaccine record book of all the ones he's had in the past 27 years.... vaccines are not a concern in our house

I don't understand the under 12s either.

I'm concerned. Two friends have had quite significant side effects.

I'm not happy about it but the alternative is much worse unfortunately

I dont really understand wanting to vaccinate under 12s who are otherwise healthy. Its not to protect them, it doesn't 'protect' the NHS because they weren't ending up in ICU anyway, and it doesn't stop infection/ transmission.

I'm not an expert but vaccination decreases infection/transmission enough to make a difference. And as I understand two reasons for vaccinating the under-12s are along the lines of: The virus can happily mutate as it spreads to/among the under 12s, possibly into vaccine busting variants or variants that are more dangerous to the young. And second, the under 12s are not isolated from everyone else and vaccines are not 100% effective, so under 12s are still a source of infection to some vaccinated older people.

Vaccination makes under 12s less of a source of infection and mutations.

@Mrsjayy

I have the flu vaccine every year so 2hy not ??

Yes but that's only once a year. People are having 3 vaccines covid vaccines in less than a year!

@Talsaml

It worries me that we may have to keep having vaccines going forward. I’m due my booster which I will take but I’m hearing that AZ are in the process of tweaking the current vaccine to combat the new strain. So we are then required to take another booster. Many variants can crop up, suppose another one does very soon. I’m concerned about the number of vaccines we could be taking. Is anyone else? And no I’m not an anti vaxer.

You are

@Valhalla17

Those that say " well I take the flu jab every year"....I assume that's because you're vulnerable or have an underlying condition that requires it...and I expect the same for Covid vaccines and boosters. Every single man, woman and child does not require this. Its beyond ridiculous.

No, I have the flu jag every year through my work. No vulnerabilities but I work frontline with the public and have 2 small children so really don't want the flu. Children get flu vaccination from age 2 as well.

But most people have done what they needed too do. Most did lockdown, washed their hands, wore masks, isolated, social distanced and got vaccinated etc. The majority have tried and they still cant stop COVID.

I do understand the feeling and yes the fact that we can't stop Covid altogether is scary, but this is about practicalities and the practicalities are that we need vaccinations for young people, boosters etc just to slow Covid down enough so that we can live with effective healthcare and without lockdowns.

Lockdowns are damaging to everyone, overwhelmed healthcare is dangerous to everyone.

I agree. I have a serious illness and the second vaccine put me into a flare that took a few weeks to recover from. I wouldn't want to be doing that every few months.

I keep hoping that once enough healthy people are vaccinated it will be safe for other people who react badly to the vaccine to not keep having it. Better still that it will eventually be safe enough for people not to have it if they choose not to, for whatever reason. No guarantees that will happen though.