It seems like the U.K. may have a better Covid strategy after all

[Warhertisuff]

... at least since the emergence of Delta. I generally supported the restrictions before last summer, but thought that opening up in July was sensible. It's too early to tell
for sure, but at the moment it looks like the right call.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59378849

"Very few people give two hoots about particles and transmission and that X mask stops 75% and Y mask stops 78%."

And that's why so many people are ill or have died.
The messaging has been off from the beginning. There were studies from years ago in Asian countries into masks and airborne viruses, which is why they were quite commonly worn and why they decided right at the start to use them in case it was airborne.

Here we were told there was no evidence, or they were worse than useful. Because we weren't listening to scientists in other countries and their expertise. It's the same reason why we ignored what several countries in Africa were doing to mitigate it, because they'd had previous experience with SARS.
So now people are confused. But there's now a load of evidence out there. And unfortunately, a bit like vaccines, our protection is reliant on other people doing the right thing. And lots don't care about other people enough.

If anyone suggests that the U.K. is not completely crap after all, they get “British Exceptionalism” shouted at them

Seems you missed the entire point of my post.

The exceptionalism we have gloated about with the schadenfreude of Europe doing badly has been premature every time.

We don’t yet know if we are not completely crap. We are at the beginning of a very precarious season. Let’s take a moment before we declare we have beaten it because we need to remember it is out there.

@duffeldaisy

"Very few people give two hoots about particles and transmission and that X mask stops 75% and Y mask stops 78%."

And that's why so many people are ill or have died.
The messaging has been off from the beginning. There were studies from years ago in Asian countries into masks and airborne viruses, which is why they were quite commonly worn and why they decided right at the start to use them in case it was airborne.

Here we were told there was no evidence, or they were worse than useful. Because we weren't listening to scientists in other countries and their expertise. It's the same reason why we ignored what several countries in Africa were doing to mitigate it, because they'd had previous experience with SARS.
So now people are confused. But there's now a load of evidence out there. And unfortunately, a bit like vaccines, our protection is reliant on other people doing the right thing. And lots don't care about other people enough.

Didn’t Germany wear the higher level masks you mentioned?

I'm not confused.

I'm well aware that in Scotland I am supposed to be wearing a mask. But I don't think that really, when I have had 2 vaccines and live in the part of Scotland which has the highest vaccine uptake, that the difference between the different sorts of masks makes any real difference. Or masks at all, to be honest.

When you have ridiculous rules about wearing a mask to walk into a restaurant but taking it off when sitting, or having to wear a mask in a uni tutorial but not in the pub with the same people after, does the actual mask you wear even matter?

I think people are hoping it’s right rather than gloating.

People see what they see and it’ll often be the worst take but I really do not want lockdown. If we avoid that then good

If others avoid it good too

Germany and Austria mandated FFP2 rather than FFP3.

I do not see many people being willing to wear FFP3 “properly”.

FFP3 fitted with gaps is as “useful” as a cloth mask.

Whether German wore masks or not would only be relevant if it were argued that they should be the chief or sole measure.

They are useful - as an adjunct- but even if they only help by 10% that would represent potentially many lives saved, out of 100s of thousands of infections over the winter.

Especially if they also protect against flu and RSV.

No one knows whose way is best and it won't be for some tome but do people make up things , such as an 82% worse death rate per capita than europe , which for the most part is not remotely true

@BoredZelda Seems you have missed the point of mine…I don’t see gloating unless the definition of gloating has changed from “dwelling on one's own success or another's misfortune with smugness or malignant pleasure” to “our approach wasn’t as crap as everyone said it was.”

Also so many people on here state their opinion as though its a fact and you have to look beyond just covid , mh issues caused by locked down , other deaths missed due to lockdowns or people not seeking treatment
Its a much bigger picture that only in time will people be able to look at what was right and wrong , no country would of got all right just impossible

What herecomesthesun said.
Masks apparently slowed Germany's rise in cases by 40%. But they're lagging with vaccinations, and it does need a combination of factors to reduce the risk properly.

Also, if you look, for a country of 83million, they got extremely concerned as soon as they hit 40,000+ cases - whereas we've been at those levels daily for months now. They're having a spike, but it's a fast one, rather than a high platform for months, which infects more people.

Strictly anecdata, but a friend's exHusband died suddenly of an infection this summer at about 60 years of age, apparently otherwise in reasonably good health. There was no post mortem, so no definitive answer on cause of death, but in hotter countries (this was Southern Europe in high summer) there is a tendency to bury corpses quickly for good reason. It might or might not have been a COVID death, but it wasn't autopsied. So where does that sort of death fit into the statistics. The UK's stats are a long way from perfect, but we don't bury evidence quite so cavalierly.

@duffeldaisy

What herecomesthesun said. Masks apparently slowed Germany's rise in cases by 40%. But they're lagging with vaccinations, and it does need a combination of factors to reduce the risk properly.

Also, if you look, for a country of 83million, they got extremely concerned as soon as they hit 40,000+ cases - whereas we've been at those levels daily for months now. They're having a spike, but it's a fast one, rather than a high platform for months, which infects more people.

Vaccinations are pretty much same level as here

The fast spike is the issue as you have to slow it down

How do you think they will do this?

@rrhuth how do you know ? Other countries have lower testing and as we know many children are asymptomatic so could of had more cases than realised
Your just guessing with no real facts and if covid is around forever then what ?

How do you think they will do this?

"no country would of got all right just impossible"

That's fair. But in this pandemic, ours is doing nothing. No mitigations in schools (unless the school decides to), no rules on masks or vaccines or ventilation. Track and Trace next to useless.

Trying things and getting it wrong is one thing. Trying absolutely nothing and letting it rip through the population is another.

@rrhuth so is the strategy of some who look to see the uk in a bad light all the timr and willingly want it to go bad so they can say i told you so
Posters on here saying uk has an 82% higher death rate per capita than other european counties , which is simply not true. We also don't know that all are reporting the same , and the demographics and ages in different countries will also impact numbers , its not as simple as this country a as 100 deaths and another country. B 50 , therefore b has done better

Also, if you look, for a country of 83million, they got extremely concerned as soon as they hit 40,000+ cases - whereas we've been at those levels daily for months now.

They are concerned with the speed of the increase rather than the absolute level.

Do we really think anything has slowed down the German increase by 40%? If we compare its case trajectory to - say - Denmark, they are nearly identical even though Germany mandates masks and Denmark doesn’t.

That’s our strategy though. We’re deliberately not suppressing cases. Because once you removed restrictions cases inevitably rise and often quickly.
So you’re stuck in a suppress and release cycle (forever?).

@herecomesthsun

How do you think they will do this?

I’m interested in Duffle’s response not sure why you are interjecting

@rrhuth do you read all the european news for every country to know whats happening in them all ? Some have higher deaths per capita than the uk , some a lot less
Europe is made up of lots and lots of countries , you can't just compare uk and europe

@MarshaBradyo

couldn't see where the line of interrogation was headed and thought you might clue us in

But in this pandemic, ours is doing nothing.

Really??? I mean - really???

UK is currently doing the one thing that really matters.

@duffeldaisy sorry but masks etc are not doing so well in germany and they were a better grade one
We still have mask wearing in lots of places such as hospitals and restricted visits etc
Plenty are still wfh , it is not totally back to pre pandemic anywhere
But cases are rising in countries with restrictions ? So what is the answer ?

Masks in schools in France have meant my kids have missed just two week of school since September 2020. And one of those are in a national circuit breaker with an extra week onto holidays. When I compare their educational record with their cousins in England I find it impossible to believe mask mandates aren’t effective at reducing spread. I haven’t seen any comparison of school days missed per country, would be be interesting to see.