Vaccinations to made a legal requirement in Austria from Feb 2022

[littlelordfuckleroy]

Days after Austria imposed a lockdown on the unvaccinated, it has announced a full national Covid-19 lockdown starting on Monday.

Chancellor Alexander Schallenberg said it would last at least 10 days and there would be a legal requirement to get vaccinated from 1 February 2022.

Jesus. I'm shocked by that. I'm not an antivaxxer but I still very concerned that a country could make any vaccine a legal requirement! I feel it's a step too far.

last post was to @ollyollyoxenfree

Immaculatemisconception

In this instance yes as there are many documents outlining the plan and being very clear what tactics were employed (see gov uk) had the scientists involved have since openly apologised for using these tactics.

[quote eandz13]@ollyollyoxenfree that many people do not WANT the vaccine, and are being forced to under threat of imprisonment! How are you struggling with this? [/quote]
Is there a threat of imprisonment? Can you share this please - the reports I’ve seen said that penalties for non-compliance were likely to be civil and not criminal but that it wasn’t determined yet.

[quote eandz13]**@ollyollyoxenfree How are they nonsensical? A whole country is having a basic human right taken away, and will be punished if they don't comply.
No misinformation here. I'd say most people have all the information they need to make a decision. It's rammed down everybody's throats enough. Many have just decided not to have it, and now their choice is being taken away from them.
It is WRONG and is becoming VERY easy to compare to Nazism. [/quote]
Refuting that that there is any comparison is in fact dangerous.

It is important that we are alert to any suggestions of anything like Nazism returning. If we shame people into being silenced we could risk huge populations failing to stand up and speak out.

It is important that these discussions take place and ALL people's opinions be heard. Please stop the shaming @ollyollyoxenfree

The "imprisonment" mentioned in the article about Austria which has been quoted several times has been inadequately translated. It is an "Ersatzfreiheitstrafe" and it means doing some time in jail instead of paying a fine.

So the point still stands you can end up in jail then.

Oh here we go, ‘the unvaxxed are so selfish’. What is appallingly, sickeningly selfish is to expect others to be injected against their will simply because you are a cringing coward quivering with fear over something as low risk as covid. Putting children at risk with experimental drugs to protect your own miserable skins against a minuscule risk. Revolting. Also, how thick do you need to be to be cheering on the stripping of your own rights; to want no say on what is injected into you and your children’s bodies - now and in the future once such a dangerous president has been set. Jesus wept, what a sorry lot you are.

Please link to any of my posts where I have "shamed" someone @SencosRshit

The Hitlier and Nazi Germany comparisons are offensive and illogical. The Jewish community have repeatedly asked for this not to be done, not least because the main propogators don't care a jot about anti-Semitism when it's not useful to them.

@ZeroFsKarma

It isn't edited, it's an excerpt yes but she said those words. They have always said any death within a certain amount of time following a positive test = covide death - even if the person was asymptomatic. This is why everyday Sky News tweets about deaths "WITH" covid or "covid RELATED" deaths not FROM.

There are lots of different measures here, none are perfect. We have Covid as a primary cause on death certificates, which isn’t a bad one but it is a very lagging indicator.

The ‘deaths within 28 days of a positive test’ has turned out to be pretty good as a monitoring measure, when you align with the other actuals. Yes, it captures that huge epidemic of People Getting Hit By Buses Within Weeks Of Covid Recovery, but it also misses out those who have been ill for longer before they die - which is not an insignificant number. The 28 days point seems to be a good place at which they balance out, based on other data.

@AWitchCalledMeg

Oh here we go, ‘the unvaxxed are so selfish’. What is appallingly, sickeningly selfish is to expect others to be injected against their will simply because you are a cringing coward quivering with fear over something as low risk as covid. Putting children at risk with experimental drugs to protect your own miserable skins against a minuscule risk. Revolting. Also, how thick do you need to be to be cheering on the stripping of your own rights; to want no say on what is injected into you and your children’s bodies - now and in the future once such a dangerous president has been set. Jesus wept, what a sorry lot you are.

Perfectly articulated. Thank you.

@fumfspos

The "imprisonment" mentioned in the article about Austria which has been quoted several times has been inadequately translated. It is an "Ersatzfreiheitstrafe" and it means doing some time in jail instead of paying a fine. So if someone was fined 1000 Euros for not getting vaccinated, for example, (and 1000 Euros randomly plucked out of the air to aid the example), if they were unable to pay that they would go to jail for a certain number of hours. There is a complicated system of the number of hours you need to do based on the fine and on other factors - I don't know the details. If you had the 1000 Euros to pay but didn't want to you could opt to do the jail time instead. It is not a prison sentence and it is not issued by a court. It is an administrative matter.

I'm in Austria and I'm fully vaccinated and I am very very concerned about how this is going. Our government have been becoming increasingly authoritarian as time has gone on during the pandemic and it actually scares me.

Potato-potarto

[quote eandz13]@ollyollyoxenfree lazy, maybe. First bloke who springs to mind when you think of totalitarianism.
"You will be punished if you don't give up your basic rights". Hardly a bizarre comparison. [/quote]
You know all the posts that have been deleted on the thread?
Guess what tired, lazy, unoriginal comparison they made? G'wan.

@ancientgran

Coronavirus isn’t yellow fever Well that's amazing news. Do you think that's why they developed a new vaccine instead of using the yellow fever one?

So stop making silly comparisons between covid and a disease with a CFR > 10 times higher. And, as a pp also pointed out, proof of vaccination against yellow fever isn’t required by citizens to go to shop/restaurant cinema. It’s ridiculous to bring it up in this discussion.

It is truly terrifying (and I'm pro-vax)!!

@ollyollyoxenfree

Please link to any of my posts where I have "shamed" someone *@SencosRshit*

The Hitlier and Nazi Germany comparisons are offensive and illogical. The Jewish community have repeatedly asked for this not to be done, not least because the main propogators don't care a jot about anti-Semitism when it's not useful to them.

This, 100%.

Please stop doing it.

Diminishment and minimisation of the Holocaust has been directly linked to antisemitic tactics and even if that isn’t your intent, you are unintentionally feeding that movement.

The only reason I can think of that people keep doing it when they’ve been asked to stop is so that they are then able to claim they’ve been silenced/censored because of their opinions.

Rather than reach for ahistorical comparisons for the current situation (see also Stalin, Mao, Churchill, Dunkirk, the Blitz), how about arguing the issues on their own merits.

If it could be done without misinformation that would also be fabulous but I don’t hold out much hope for that.

@AWitchCalledMeg

Oh here we go, ‘the unvaxxed are so selfish’. What is appallingly, sickeningly selfish is to expect others to be injected against their will simply because you are a cringing coward quivering with fear over something as low risk as covid. Putting children at risk with experimental drugs to protect your own miserable skins against a minuscule risk. Revolting. Also, how thick do you need to be to be cheering on the stripping of your own rights; to want no say on what is injected into you and your children’s bodies - now and in the future once such a dangerous president has been set. Jesus wept, what a sorry lot you are.

Well said!

@ilovesooty

I think the last paragraph of that post at 15.36 is disgusting personally.

Yes. And there has been one particular poster who has been wanging on about this for a few weeks now, using the exact same words. Claims that the elderly and vulnerable were being murdered by their carers.

Putting children at risk with experimental drugs to protect your own miserable skins against a minuscule risk.

• not experimental. Nor ‘drugs’ in the usually accepted sense of being a medication/medical treatment.

But the first point is the important one. Not experimental.

@fumfspos

The "imprisonment" mentioned in the article about Austria which has been quoted several times has been inadequately translated. It is an "Ersatzfreiheitstrafe" and it means doing some time in jail instead of paying a fine. So if someone was fined 1000 Euros for not getting vaccinated, for example, (and 1000 Euros randomly plucked out of the air to aid the example), if they were unable to pay that they would go to jail for a certain number of hours. There is a complicated system of the number of hours you need to do based on the fine and on other factors - I don't know the details. If you had the 1000 Euros to pay but didn't want to you could opt to do the jail time instead. It is not a prison sentence and it is not issued by a court. It is an administrative matter.

I'm in Austria and I'm fully vaccinated and I am very very concerned about how this is going. Our government have been becoming increasingly authoritarian as time has gone on during the pandemic and it actually scares me.

Vaccination of the poor then, the rich can pay their way out of it.

Similar to here when the rich were doing as they wanted in lockdown, keeps the poor under control while the well off go about their daily lives.

@JassyRadlett

Putting children at risk with experimental drugs to protect your own miserable skins against a minuscule risk.

• not experimental. Nor ‘drugs’ in the usually accepted sense of being a medication/medical treatment.

But the first point is the important one. Not experimental.

Ummm - I think you'll find it is.

I think it’s shocking, I’ve had both jabs and a booster due next week. I do not agree with forcing people. The issue for me is the government having control over another humans body! Where do we draw the line…

@JassyRadlett

Putting children at risk with experimental drugs to protect your own miserable skins against a minuscule risk.

• not experimental. Nor ‘drugs’ in the usually accepted sense of being a medication/medical treatment.

But the first point is the important one. Not experimental.

Here is a story suggesting the vaccines may only affect the periods of women who take contraception www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10207937/Covid-vaccines-affect-menstrual-cycles-women-contraception-study-claims.html

Surely the many unknowns around this issue alone (never mind the heart problems, blot clots or strokes) suggests we are still in a trial phase therefore the vaccines are still experimental? Isn't this also why we now know the 2 doses isn't enough & boosters are required- because we are in a live trial? Therefore it's an experiment?

Also, why does everyone ignore the swine flu vaccine?
www.buzzfeed.com/shaunlintern/these-nhs-staff-were-told-the-swine-flu-vaccine-was-safe

What is happening is scary & completely unjust. The vaccines, the technology of the MNRA is far far too new for goverments to be insisting upon mandatory vaccines or the use of vaccine passports.

They are trying to convince the unjabbed that the jabs work whilst telling the jabbed the vaccines don't work well enough so they need their boosters. This is an experiment!

@AWitchCalledMeg

Oh here we go, ‘the unvaxxed are so selfish’. What is appallingly, sickeningly selfish is to expect others to be injected against their will simply because you are a cringing coward quivering with fear over something as low risk as covid. Putting children at risk with experimental drugs to protect your own miserable skins against a minuscule risk. Revolting. Also, how thick do you need to be to be cheering on the stripping of your own rights; to want no say on what is injected into you and your children’s bodies - now and in the future once such a dangerous president has been set. Jesus wept, what a sorry lot you are.

could not agree with you more , its chilling how this is playing out , and that there are loads of people surporting it as well

Ummm - I think you'll find it is.

Ummmm…. No.

The vaccines currently being deployed have finished phase 3 trials. No experiments or tests or trials are being carried out using them in the ways they are being used in the vaccine deployment programmes.

There have been trials for their use as boosters since deployment, and for different ways of using them.

But for the way in which they are being deployed, for which they have CMA in the UK and equivalents in the US (and Pfizer now has full authorisation in the US; Moderna probably a few weeks away) - the experimental phase is done.

Seriously, you’ve been on threads before where this has been covered in excruciating detail.

I am as ever not giving any views on whether there should or should not be vaccine passports or vaccination as a condition of employment. I’ve made my view on mandatory vaccination clear.

But describing these vaccines as experimental is factually incorrect.

They’ve cleared their experimental phase.

That there would be unknowns, particularly around duration of protection but also rare side effects, was always the case and has been clear from the outset.

I get that humans don’t deal with with uncertainty and ambiguity; I’ll admit the pandemic has surprised me how much people want guarantees.

Years ago I had an very rare side effect to an antibiotic. Nearly killed me. So rare that I was part of the evidence used to link the side effect to the antibiotic.

Now that antibiotic had been around for nearly 40 years before I took it. Was it still ‘experimental’ because there hadn’t been enough cases of that side effect to link it to the drug previously?

No, of course not. It’s just one of those things.

And it’s worth noting that there have almost certainly been many, many more people who have had the Covid vaccines than have had that antibiotic in the decades it’s been around. So our dataset for side effects is already pretty much the best in human history.

It’s horrifying.