Vaccinations to made a legal requirement in Austria from Feb 2022

[littlelordfuckleroy]

Days after Austria imposed a lockdown on the unvaccinated, it has announced a full national Covid-19 lockdown starting on Monday.

Chancellor Alexander Schallenberg said it would last at least 10 days and there would be a legal requirement to get vaccinated from 1 February 2022.

Jesus. I'm shocked by that. I'm not an antivaxxer but I still very concerned that a country could make any vaccine a legal requirement! I feel it's a step too far.

@ColinTheKoala

Collectively, large numbers of people refusing to get vaxxed does pose a massive threat to public health

I don't disagree. But you need persuasion, not coercion.

Evidently the Austrian government feels persuasion hasn't worked. It's up to them what measures they take in their country but goodness knows what they will do with persistent refusers.

It wouldn't stand a chance of getting through parliament here even if it were on the cards, which I very much doubt.

Exactly

I dont think enough attention is paid to avoiding being anaemic around time of vaccination as it affects effectiveness potentially. It is used to make antibodies if you have endo may be worth checking your iron levels

People rather watch shite tv than reading long articles

Well if nothing else I hope this makes more people realise the dangerous world we are sleepwalking into and adds numbers to those already building to say NO MORE. Something needed to snap sense into people, beaten down by 2 years of propaganda and fear, and if this news does it then let the tide start turning. Bring it on!

I’m concerned about our children’s future if this is allowed to happen

To register your child for school in France and Switzerland, (and probably other European countries too) you have to take your child's vaccination booklet as proof they're all up to date. No vaccinations, no school. No - one sees a problem with that.

So what comes next? Compulsory flu vaccine?

Forced sterilisation?
"Incentives" to choose euthanasia?
Refusal of healthcare for certain lifestyle choices? (Would be fascinating to watch MN melt down completely if, god forbid, they included obesity)

Looking at some posts, the really worrying thing is that even these could be supported in some quarters

@Chocolatefreak

To register your child for school in France and Switzerland, (and probably other European countries too) you have to take your child's vaccination booklet as proof they're all up to date. No vaccinations, no school. No - one sees a problem with that.

Presumably they have to home school? Doesn't mean their parents get sent to prison?

This thread is fast moving and I’m skimming as I find much of the Nazi chat upsetting. However, I can’t see if this has already been mentioned.

According to several sources, including the Guardian Mandatory vaccination is not unprecedented in Austria. In 1948 the postwar government made vaccination against smallpox compulsory by law.

So maybe we are extrapolating a lot of this to the UK attitude where it is unprecedented?

Covid is infinitely more infectious and unless people get vaccinated it will NEVER end.

Quote taken from a post about measles.

This is untrue. R0 for measles is 16-18. R0 for Delta is around 7. Chicken pox is 12, from memory.

The difference is that two years ago, every person in the world was immunologically naive to Covid. That’s why it has spread so far, so fast and has done such damage.

And no, it is not likely ever to ‘end’. It is likely to become endemic and controlled by vaccines and treatments, and will have a much lower impact because our immune systems will become more experienced.

Breaking my usual ‘I don’t debate policy’ cover to say that I agree with all those condemning Austria for this move. On the face of it, it is an totally unacceptable.

@Chocolatefreak and has been said many times, nobody sees a problem with that because the list of required vaccines offer protection to children against diseases that could seriously harm them or kill them and they have been in existence and tested and used on children for years and years. The risk to benefit is easy to establish and understand.

Covid isn’t even likely to kill a healthy 70 year old, let alone children and the vaccine isn’t 100% safe for children. We know this after less than 6 months on the market for children and new data about safety is still coming in. For example, Moderna is now banned from use in under 30 year olds across many European countries. Well that wasn’t the case in July and August when they were being given to 12 year olds and we were told it was completely safe!

I’m sure the vaccines are very safe and anyone who wants one can get them but the risk to benefit is not the same across all demographics and so the idea of making this particular vaccine cannot be compared to pre-existing mandated vaccines.

I've asked a few posters now who agree with this where they would draw the line

Anyone?

Save your breath, OP. IME those who support such things tend to be very glib about the rights of others - right up to the point where they're the ones being targeted
Unfortunately what they don't always see is how one can easily lead to the other

It’s bordering on dangerous territory. People should have the right to determine their own health care choices.

Making it a law to get a vaccine that while being proven safe, we still have no long term data to show the outcomes is an overreach.

I think people should have the choice to have the vaccine or not. I don’t agree with forcing anyone to have this. Everyone has access to information on the vaccine and can make an informed decision on if they want to have it or not.

I will be watching closely, because I can see other nations in the EU implementing this.

It’s awful and I absolutely disagree with this terrifying move.

And as an aside, if people are going to keep ignoring the ‘please stop appropriating the Jewish tragedy of the Holocaust for your own arguments without any apparent understanding of the centuries of discrimination and persecution that led up to it or in fact what actually happened to it’ requests, could they at least do Talking About The Nazis right?

We don’t have to speculate about what Hitler would have done. We know that he relaxed vaccine mandates in Germany to a more voluntary approach.

If anything Hitler would've denied vaccination & the protection it confers to the groups he persecuted during Nazi Germany. What better way to kill off people than prevent them from accessing vaccines during a pandemic.

He and Martin Bormann were both very clear about denying vaccinations to ‘members of subject races’

(And as others have said, compulsory vaccines are not unprecedented in either Austria or Germany, so it’s worth reflecting that the context is quite different. I still oppose it, but it’s relevant.)

I don't have a problem with this. We have all sorts of laws that curtail people's freedoms, to protect themselves and others in society. No society can function without it.

If unvaccinated people are leading to an overburdened health service (which leads to other people suffering and dying), placing vulnerable people at risk or curtailing their freedoms ( such as people in care homes - my mum's care home has been closed to all visitors for over a year because of this. That's an awful lot of severe human suffering) or restricting how businesses work or other people's freedoms, then I support this.

The 'personal liberty' to be unvaccinated doesn't just affect you. It is having very real effects on other people and society. And very damaging ones. I just don't have sympathy with people who don't get vaccinated.

@JassyRadlett

And as an aside, if people are going to keep ignoring the ‘please stop appropriating the Jewish tragedy of the Holocaust for your own arguments without any apparent understanding of the centuries of discrimination and persecution that led up to it or in fact what actually happened to it’ requests, could they at least do Talking About The Nazis right?

We don’t have to speculate about what Hitler would have done. We know that he relaxed vaccine mandates in Germany to a more voluntary approach.

If anything Hitler would've denied vaccination & the protection it confers to the groups he persecuted during Nazi Germany. What better way to kill off people than prevent them from accessing vaccines during a pandemic.

He and Martin Bormann were both very clear about denying vaccinations to ‘members of subject races’

(And as others have said, compulsory vaccines are not unprecedented in either Austria or Germany, so it’s worth reflecting that the context is quite different. I still oppose it, but it’s relevant.)

He and Martin Bormann were both very clear about denying vaccinations to ‘members of subject races’

Ok, and what was their policy on this..?

I'm struggling to beleive that children in camps & ghettos were accessing the vaccine programme, or that adults were getting their annual vaccines

Or that if there was a pandemic, people would've been priortised on clinical status

@Iagreewithall

I don't have a problem with this. We have all sorts of laws that curtail people's freedoms, to protect themselves and others in society. No society can function without it. If unvaccinated people are leading to an overburdened health service (which leads to other people suffering and dying), placing vulnerable people at risk or curtailing their freedoms ( such as people in care homes - my mum's care home has been closed to all visitors for over a year because of this. That's an awful lot of severe human suffering) or restricting how businesses work or other people's freedoms, then I support this.

The 'personal liberty' to be unvaccinated doesn't just affect you. It is having very real effects on other people and society. And very damaging ones. I just don't have sympathy with people who don't get vaccinated.

If course it’s personal liberty not sure why it needs quote marks.

Yes vaccination is very good to have but it still has to be a choice.

@RubyFakeLips

This thread is fast moving and I’m skimming as I find much of the Nazi chat upsetting. However, I can’t see if this has already been mentioned.

According to several sources, including the Guardian Mandatory vaccination is not unprecedented in Austria. In 1948 the postwar government made vaccination against smallpox compulsory by law.

So maybe we are extrapolating a lot of this to the UK attitude where it is unprecedented?

Smallpox was a far more serious disease than Covid.

www.cdc.gov/smallpox/history/history.html

I think it's great, I'm assuming anyone who can't have it is exempt and everyone else can get over themselves. Good for them for actually doing something about it.

This is terrifying

Ok, and what was their policy on this..?

Sorry, I wasn’t clear enough. Their policy was to deny vaccines to members of subject races. I was agreeing with the previous post I quoted.

My overall point is that people speculating about ‘it’s what Hitler would have done!’ is quite silly when we have actual information about what he and his colleagues did.

How on earth are they going to impose this? Surely there’s all kinds of legal implications??

Forced sterilisation?
That's already here. Called gender affirmation.

"Incentives" to choose euthanasia?
Yup, pension pots are empty. Work until 72 and then...