I have to have the vaccine or I loose my job

[wingingmumlife]

I am absolutely prepared to get flamed for this but I am really worrying.

I am 22 year years old, healthy and unvaccinated (by choice).

I am not anti-vax, I have had every single vaccine from being a child to now and my daughter is up to date with all of hers too.

I work in dentistry and myself and 4 other colleagues have been told we have to be fully vaccinated by April 2022 otherwise, we lose our jobs.

I just can't believe it has come to this. I feel like my human rights have been taken away. I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I am a big believer in science but as a genuine question ... Can someone please tell me why this vaccine is being pushed so much to the point where soon we probably won't be able to even go into a restaurant without having this vaccine?

I have to wear AGP PPE every single day for every single patient but this still isn't enough?

I test myself every single day, but this still isn't enough?

Can someone please help it make sense to me? That is a genuine question.

Im not looking for an argument and I'm not wanting anyone to tell me "how stupid I am" I just want this to make sense.

For anyone wondering why I haven't had the vaccine - the main reason being, I have severe health anxiety, ironic I know since most would think I'd jump for the vaccine, but at the moment I'm more scared of this vaccine then I am of catching Covid itself.

I just feel sick to my stomach at the thought of not having a job unless I have this vaccine, it really doesn't sit well with me but everyone on here seems to be supporting it?

@Heatherjayne1972

I’m in dentistry op The hep b vaccine we all have has been around since the 80’s. It’s got long term data to support this The covid jab hasn’t I also wear the same ppe as you although I’m double jabbed

What has happened is that the cqc which covers every hospital special care home school prison doctors dentists etc etc have decided that this is the way to go ie everyone jabbed as we see and get very close to a lot of vulnerable patients / clients. The cqc can’t and won’t differentiate between us wearing level 3 ppe all day ( and being as safe as it’s possible to be) and those professionals who don’t need to - care home workers or special school staff who wear level 1 routinely
So it’s everyone or no one

I’m pro vaccine but also pro choice
And I agree that we are the safest ( along with nurses and doctors) and it shouldn’t be forced on us

During the pandemic 3 patients have got Covid from the dentist - 3
Not bad considering there’s over 25,000 dental practices in the U.K.

During the pandemic, there were times when dental practices weren’t allowed to operate at all and most of the time they’ve been doing emergencies only so it’s hardly surprising that there are few covid cases linked to dental treatment.

I have a friend who is a surgeon at a large local hospital. I met him on the weekend he said that during the first few waves of covid it was mostly the old who were catching it and dying very quickly. It was heartbreaking. Now, according to him, younger unvaccinated people are catching covid and ending up in hospital - not necessarily dying but ending up in intensive care and on ventilators for months. Which is why the NHS is at breaking point. Stay well, get the vaccine - and get on with your life...

@Lou197

I have a friend who is a surgeon at a large local hospital. I met him on the weekend he said that during the first few waves of covid it was mostly the old who were catching it and dying very quickly. It was heartbreaking. Now, according to him, younger unvaccinated people are catching covid and ending up in hospital - not necessarily dying but ending up in intensive care and on ventilators for months. Which is why the NHS is at breaking point. Stay well, get the vaccine - and get on with your life...

Anecdotally though, I'm a paramedic and all the covid patients i have taken in recently have been double vaccines and fit into the classic high risk category, either by age or comorbidities.

We did not go in and sign a contract that says if there is a pandemic we must take a vaccine that is still under clinical trials

You're not being required to do so now. The vaccine is not still under clinical trials.

[quote howdiditcometothis666]I can't believe how many people on here are relying on the vaccination to stop transmission in close contact situations. It doesn't www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59077036[/quote]
Nobody thinks that. They do think it reduces chances of transmission in environments where there are extremely vulnerable patients and close contact is unavoidable.

@Lou197

I have a friend who is a surgeon at a large local hospital. I met him on the weekend he said that during the first few waves of covid it was mostly the old who were catching it and dying very quickly. It was heartbreaking. Now, according to him, younger unvaccinated people are catching covid and ending up in hospital - not necessarily dying but ending up in intensive care and on ventilators for months. Which is why the NHS is at breaking point. Stay well, get the vaccine - and get on with your life...

If more younger people are suddenly dying that were not before vaccines there must be another cause for it.

I can’t see how vaccines have caused increased risk to younger unvaccinated people.

I completely understand how your health anxiety can make you wary of getting this vaccine. It's not logical, but I think you know that, and as many have stated, that's not how anxiety works.

However, I think you have to admit now that your health anxiety is preventing you from doing your existing job. So like it or not, you have to make a decision – either to tackle the anxiety sufficiently to get the vaccine, or to pursue a different line of work.

Because patients are also within their rights to not be put at risk, and to request only to be treated by vaccinated staff, which basically puts your boss in an untenable position, even if this weren't becoming law.

No-one can, or is forcing you to have the vaccine. But they can say that you aren't allowed to be in a position where you put others at increased risk because you're unvaccinated - because it's about your patients, not you.

And I, for one, am thankful that's going to be the case.

Because some people cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons, in others it's ineffective eg chemotherapy patients - they rely on all of us to be vaccinated so they don't catch it, the more people vaccinated the less covid is likely to circulate. Personally I don't want an unvaccinated person in a healthcare setting, lfts are not 100%

@userperuser
“ If more younger people are suddenly dying that were not before vaccines there must be another cause for it.”

Delta

[quote MrsJamPanMan]@userperuser
“ If more younger people are suddenly dying that were not before vaccines there must be another cause for it.”

Delta[/quote]
But the vaccines were designed from the Alpha variant.

Helpful

@userperuser
“But the vaccines were designed from the Alpha variant.”

I don’t follow.
The vaccines we’re using were well developed before we knew about Alpha, but either way I don’t understand your point.

But the vaccines were designed from the Alpha variant.

@userperuser

They were designed from the original sequence identified in Wuhan

Efficacy is reduced by new variants, but not to the point that they aren't having a substantial impact on reducing cases, transmission & deaths.

I haven’t been able to read every single response on this thread but I’ve sifted through a few.

There are a lot of good points people are making and also lots of stupid ones. I know my worries and my anxiety surrounding this vaccine may sound stupid to some but anxiety (especially health anxiety) is something you just can’t explain unless you’ve experienced it yourself.

As I’ve previously mentioned, I can’t explain why the vaccine to me is more worrying than Covid/long Covid, but it is. It probably has something to do with the fact, I don’t know what this vaccine could do to me in years to come and no one does. It is a new vaccine despite people saying scientist have followed the same vaccine that already exist. A PP made a very good comment earlier based on the fact, having this vaccine puts me in a situation where I’m not in control whatsoever.

My biggest fear in all honesty, is cancer. I worry about that big time and something in me is telling me this vaccine will give me cancer in years to come (irrational I know).

I have applied for a new job but in the meantime I am going to try and think about it.

I know I need help for my anxiety, I don’t need people reminding me of that because it’s something I’ve been aware of for years.

To anyone saying, they can’t understand how someone can work in healthcare when they have health anxiety, it’s dentistry. Whilst it still falls under the health care category, it’s not as though I’m dealing with cancer patients everyday. It’s teeth.

I also don’t understand how I will be seeing many unvaccinated patients, so that’s alright for me but I have to have this vaccine to protect them. A lot of dental treatments are aerosol treatments but it will be the patients saliva being projected everywhere - not mine, which again puts me at risk and not them. I also don’t work directly in patients mouths.

It does feel like this country is being divided massively. Soon we will all have arm bands saying “vaccinated/unvaccinated” and that is the governments own doing. If you can’t see that then I don’t know what to say. There is no choice in this and it won’t stop here.

[quote MrsJamPanMan]**@userperuser
“But the vaccines were designed from the Alpha variant.”

I don’t follow.
The vaccines we’re using were well developed before we knew about Alpha, but either way I don’t understand your point.[/quote]
No I'm also confused

Why is this relevant @userperuser?

[quote MrsJamPanMan]@userperuser
“But the vaccines were designed from the Alpha variant.”

I don’t follow.
The vaccines we’re using were well developed before we knew about Alpha, but either way I don’t understand your point.[/quote]
The vaccines were designed before the Delta variant I’ve read (can’t remember where) from Alpha but certainly not designed from Delta so that couldn’t be the reason for a sudden rise in unvaccinated younger people.

Rather than make claims like that the pp should link the data to show their statement is correct.

The virus is only one year older than the vaccine. I really can't understand the 'it's new' argument when the virus is only 2 years old anyway. The virus and its strains are new, why don't you mind having that in your body? Personally, I'd rather have the (slightly) newer and inactive material in a nice clean vial that was designed by the world's best scientists. Rather than a random, aggressive strain that was made in a stranger's respiratory system and fired at my face with a sneeze.

@wingingmumlife

As I’ve previously mentioned, I can’t explain why the vaccine to me is more worrying than Covid/long Covid, but it is. It probably has something to do with the fact, I don’t know what this vaccine could do to me in years to come and no one does.

This is a common post. I would ask why you don't have the same concerns about COVID infection, given that there is a strong precendent for viruses causing long term emerging effects, and none for vaccines. In addition, we already know that COVID can in some cases cause long term damage to the heart, lungs and CNS.

My biggest fear in all honesty, is cancer. I worry about that big time and something in me is telling me this vaccine will give me cancer in years to come (irrational I know).

I have said this before and I'll say it again. There is no way an mRNA vaccine can cause cancer.

mRNA goes nowhere near your DNA, it doesn't even get into the nucleus. If it did get into the nucleus, we do not have the enzyme to convert mRNA back to cDNA. If these two biologically impossible things somehow happened and it somehow entered the nucleus and was concerted to cDNA, we do not have the enzyme necessary to integrate into our DNA.

It cannot in any way alter your DNA, which is the basic premise of a carcinogen. It is biologically impossible.

I also don’t understand how I will be seeing many unvaccinated patients, so that’s alright for me but I have to have this vaccine to protect them
So I'm effectively unvaccinated. I've had three jabs (2 AZ and 1 Pfizer) but because of treatment for my chronic, disabling condition, parts of my immune system are regularly wiped out. After the last round I had a tiny amount of antibodies left.
I still need to go to the dentist.

@wingingmumlife

I haven’t been able to read every single response on this thread but I’ve sifted through a few.

There are a lot of good points people are making and also lots of stupid ones. I know my worries and my anxiety surrounding this vaccine may sound stupid to some but anxiety (especially health anxiety) is something you just can’t explain unless you’ve experienced it yourself.

As I’ve previously mentioned, I can’t explain why the vaccine to me is more worrying than Covid/long Covid, but it is. It probably has something to do with the fact, I don’t know what this vaccine could do to me in years to come and no one does. It is a new vaccine despite people saying scientist have followed the same vaccine that already exist. A PP made a very good comment earlier based on the fact, having this vaccine puts me in a situation where I’m not in control whatsoever.

My biggest fear in all honesty, is cancer. I worry about that big time and something in me is telling me this vaccine will give me cancer in years to come (irrational I know).

I have applied for a new job but in the meantime I am going to try and think about it.

I know I need help for my anxiety, I don’t need people reminding me of that because it’s something I’ve been aware of for years.

To anyone saying, they can’t understand how someone can work in healthcare when they have health anxiety, it’s dentistry. Whilst it still falls under the health care category, it’s not as though I’m dealing with cancer patients everyday. It’s teeth.

I also don’t understand how I will be seeing many unvaccinated patients, so that’s alright for me but I have to have this vaccine to protect them. A lot of dental treatments are aerosol treatments but it will be the patients saliva being projected everywhere - not mine, which again puts me at risk and not them. I also don’t work directly in patients mouths.

It does feel like this country is being divided massively. Soon we will all have arm bands saying “vaccinated/unvaccinated” and that is the governments own doing. If you can’t see that then I don’t know what to say. There is no choice in this and it won’t stop here.

You honestly sound like you have the same issues with health anxiety that I do (mine was triggered 25 years ago by watching my father die a horrible death from cancer) and I’m sorry that you have had to read some of the comments on this thread.

I used to have respect for MN to a point but seeing some of the posts I’ve seen from some long term posters is totally shocking.

For now unfortunately it’s a choice between your anxiety or potentially your job and I hope you can make a decision that is least stress for you. As a pp advised perhaps hang on and see if it changes or look at new opportunities.

“ The vaccines were designed before the Delta variant I’ve read (can’t remember where) from Alpha but certainly not designed from Delta so that couldn’t be the reason for a sudden rise in unvaccinated younger people.

Rather than make claims like that the pp should link the data to show their statement is correct.”

I still don’t follow your logic. Leaving vaccination aside, Delta is more likely to make people seriously ill than previous variants. If you are unvaccinated and get Delta, you are more likely to be hospitalised than pre-vaccine you were with Alpha or the preceding variant.

@userperuser I have seen you post a few times on this thread. I am really sorry to hear that about your father, it is a horrible disease. Thank you for your kindness

@ollyollyoxenfree that's all really informing, so thank you for that. Do you work in a science related job?

@MrsJamPanMan

“ The vaccines were designed before the Delta variant I’ve read (can’t remember where) from Alpha but certainly not designed from Delta so that couldn’t be the reason for a sudden rise in unvaccinated younger people.

Rather than make claims like that the pp should link the data to show their statement is correct.”

I still don’t follow your logic. Leaving vaccination aside, Delta is more likely to make people seriously ill than previous variants. If you are unvaccinated and get Delta, you are more likely to be hospitalised than pre-vaccine you were with Alpha or the preceding variant.

Do you have a link for this? Not seen any research that the Delta variant is causing more serious illness amongst younger unvaccinated patients?

[quote wingingmumlife]@ollyollyoxenfree that's all really informing, so thank you for that. Do you work in a science related job? [/quote]
I do yes, and really don't often make definitive statements!

I genuinely feel for you, I used to have health anxiety and would worry about things even though I knew they were biologically impossible/near-impossible

I would say try and make this decision based on evidence rather than speculation, even though it is much easier said then done. You still have a while yet so don't feel pressured into something you're not comfortable with.