I have to have the vaccine or I loose my job

[wingingmumlife]

I am absolutely prepared to get flamed for this but I am really worrying.

I am 22 year years old, healthy and unvaccinated (by choice).

I am not anti-vax, I have had every single vaccine from being a child to now and my daughter is up to date with all of hers too.

I work in dentistry and myself and 4 other colleagues have been told we have to be fully vaccinated by April 2022 otherwise, we lose our jobs.

I just can't believe it has come to this. I feel like my human rights have been taken away. I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I am a big believer in science but as a genuine question ... Can someone please tell me why this vaccine is being pushed so much to the point where soon we probably won't be able to even go into a restaurant without having this vaccine?

I have to wear AGP PPE every single day for every single patient but this still isn't enough?

I test myself every single day, but this still isn't enough?

Can someone please help it make sense to me? That is a genuine question.

Im not looking for an argument and I'm not wanting anyone to tell me "how stupid I am" I just want this to make sense.

For anyone wondering why I haven't had the vaccine - the main reason being, I have severe health anxiety, ironic I know since most would think I'd jump for the vaccine, but at the moment I'm more scared of this vaccine then I am of catching Covid itself.

I just feel sick to my stomach at the thought of not having a job unless I have this vaccine, it really doesn't sit well with me but everyone on here seems to be supporting it?

@ollyollyoxenfree I've never read a word Andrew Wakefield has said, so I wouldn't know. You may be right, and that viral infections are the main factor. But you may also be wrong. Observing a link between, say, Epstein-Barr and autoimmune disease in later life is not the whole story, is it? Because someone who has had a lifetime of immunisation might react differently to the virus than someone who hasn't.

But one thing I have learned is there's no such thing as a free lunch when it comes to medical treatment - every drug, for instance, has side effects, and you have to weigh up the pros and cons. The idea that vaccination is entirely risk-free and only ever beneficial, and doesn't have any negative long term side effects strikes me as pure hubris. Only time will tell though, won't it?

@ollyollyoxenfree I see now you actually talking about side effects that pop up at a much later date after the vaccination whereas I am talking about side effects that last for a long time.

With regards side effects that appear at a much later date after vaccination I did read the mRNA experts saying it was wholly unlikely but they would not categorically say it 100% wouldn't happen . They did say it was a tiny possibility with, I think!!, it was the Russian vaccination. But you could argue they would say that as they are not unbiased.

@CJsGoldfish

How are so many leaving school with such a lack of critical literacy skills is the bigger question?

People become so invested in conspiracy theories and their 'truth seeking' networks that it becomes such a big part of who they are. No letting go of that so all the whining and moaning over things one simply doesn't understand just becomes 'noise'. There's no downside to the vaccine so either get it or don't. If you choose not to, I hope you find a job that suits you and your 'beliefs' much better.

Is this story just made up by the BBC to feed the conspiracy theorists then? www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-58330796

(and the nurses dying of the AZ vaccine, which was the start of the regulators looking at the data and restricting the use of the AZ vaccine)

They say the reason this vaccine came around so quickly is because it was an emergency, is cancer not an emergency? Because thats killed all ages so much more!

Of course it's an emergency - but cancer is not one disease, but many, needing many different treatments; and is not (in most cases) due to a virus against which one can vaccinate. (Most cases of cervical cancer are; and the incidence has been drastically reduced by the development of an HPV vaccine.) To expect a single cure for all forms of cancer is like expecting a single vaccination to prevent ALL viruses.

I certainly can't remember a time when children were thought not to get cancer.

There has been massive progress in treating cancer, and nowadays half of adults and three-quarters of children survive it. Of course, that is cold comfort to those who don't survive; and a lot more progress is needed; but it's not the case that cancer is being ignored.

Children used to not get it remember? Now apaprently they do.

Especially as it's usually the ones not wearing masks who don't respect the personal space/social distancing of others - and those people are probably the anti-vaxxers

usually it's people claiming the opposite - that it's those wearing masks that don't socially distance

The EU are investigating new possible side effects from the mRNA www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/eu-drugs-regulator-looking-new-possible-side-effects-mrna-vaccines-2021-08-11/

From people I've seen on the wards I'd be much more afraid of catching COVID than I would be having the vaccine. I've never seen wards filled with people seriously ill from vaccines.

However, I do understand that health anxiety isn't rational and it isn't just as easy to switch what you're afraid of. I'm not sure what the answer is really. I think you're in a no-win situation because it's time-sensitive. I really feel for your OP. If I were you I'd consider a job where it wasn't mandatory.

Sorry - that last line was a quote, which should have preceded my last two paragraphs.

I am not an anti vaxxer either, and actually have a medical background hence why I am so reluctant to take the COVID 19 vaccine - because the research on mRNA technology used in the Pfizer, AstraZeneca, Moderna etc is frankly scary and nobody knows the long term side effects of this technology

if you were a medical professional you would know that the AZ vaccine doesn't use mRNA technology

You aren’t stupid, but you are irrational and unreasonable. You need the vaccine. Once you’ve had it you can stop worrying about it.

@wingingmumlife You will need to find another job if you choose not to have the vaccine. Have you started looking for alternative employment yet?

@chelev9

I am sort of in the same boat. But I am 20 weeks pregnant. Not aunti vax but at the moment to anxious to have it while pregnant because of previous m/c and it's personal choice if you want it get it if you don't then don't. It's no one else's business. It's just one of those things we all can't change. I work in a care home. Not for much longer though. I thought it would have been pretty hard to find a job at 20 weeks pregnant but managed to get one 2 days after being told I have to leave due to not being vaccinated! Have you sorted your issue?

I can’t believe that stories about pregnant women dying of Covid and never meeting their babies haven’t convinced you to get the vaccine. I am 21 weeks pregnant and it’s the height of irresponsibility to refuse a vaccine which will protect you and your baby. It’s so scary that people are still so ignorant

@CJsGoldfish 4 people in Scotland have died from the vaccine (up to August) so yes there are downsides to it.
So I can totally understand why someone might find it difficult to take themselves to a vaccine centre and physically have a vaccine that might kill them. No matter how small the risk. I do not think it is my right or the Govt's right to demand that they do it.

Seeing as we now know the vaccine doesn’t prevent transmission … I’ve fallen out of love with it personally.

I feel that in terms of potential liability for the dentists - they may be liable to be sued.. If you are somehow found to have given it to a patient. ?? Though clearly that’s extremely unlikely, but just a thought. The company and insurers will always look after themselves first. That’s business.

Generally speaking don’t feel we should be coerced into having this or any other vaccine it doesn’t sit right with me.

Pros:
Less likely to die from Covid (unpleasant death)
Less likely to get Long Covid (potentially won’t be at work for several weeks, months, years then you’ll be on disability benefits anyway - if you can get them!

Against:
People are dying from HAVING the vaccine though maybe fewer than those who wind up with Covid.
It’s ineffective! Gibraltars ppl have had 3 vaccines and they’ve gone so far as to cancel Christmas… So the vaccine doesn’t prevent transmission in any meaningful sense. Though I would love to see the numbers on this.

So what’s the point on the mandate?
It’s illogical.

I probably won’t be getting the booster.

[quote howdiditcometothis666]@ollyollyoxenfree I see now you actually talking about side effects that pop up at a much later date after the vaccination whereas I am talking about side effects that last for a long time.

With regards side effects that appear at a much later date after vaccination I did read the mRNA experts saying it was wholly unlikely but they would not categorically say it 100% wouldn't happen . They did say it was a tiny possibility with, I think!!, it was the Russian vaccination. But you could argue they would say that as they are not unbiased.[/quote]
Yup as I said multiple times - yes side effectgs like myocarditis or a CVST can of course cause long term health complications. This is what the CDC are investigating - myocarditis that has persisted more than 90 days after vaccination. However, myocarditis (or other side effects) will not suddenly emerge in the long-term after vaccination. Side effects, by the very nature of how vaccination occurs, will occur in the short term.

Bringing up the Sputnik (russian) vaccine is irrelevant seeing as it is not mRNA based.

They have also been entirely untransparent in how it was developed and tested.

@MrsJamPanMan

You aren’t stupid, but you are irrational and unreasonable. You need the vaccine. Once you’ve had it you can stop worrying about it.

Do you understand the thought process involved in this?

The OP has health anxiety so will worry constantly about many health related matters and not just covid.

In the mind of the OP she will be paranoid about the risks from covid but will take some comfort from being in control of the situation to a point by protecting herself via social distancing, PPE, hand washing and so on.

As the vaccine will not eliminate the risk from covid and could potentially carry some increased risk not yet fully understood, the OP will not feel any control over this and that’s what will turn their anxiety to a level that can quickly become uncontrollable.

It’s not her thought process that’s irrational as both covid and the vaccine do have potential health consequences, it’s the anxiety that it causes that’s irrational and if you suffer from this there is no quick fix.

Some of the comments on this thread are appalling.

For a virus with a high survival rate (especially for people my age) we should be able to make that choice wether or not we want to have it.

But it's not just about you though

It's about the more vulnerable people you could pass it on to

I genuinely don't understand how you can't see that

If you don't want the vaccine then fine but if you're in close contact with people, some of whom are vulnerable, then you are at higher risk of infecting them

[quote DumplingsAndStew]**@ImJustADaddy

Why and how did you get tested for flu when you had "just a sniffle"?[/quote]
This.
I’ve never heard of anyone in the U.K. being tested for flu.

You just know, because it’s so infinitely worse than a cold.

Might add for @ImJustADaddy that I’m usually pretty resistant to respiratory infections too - I so rarely get a cold that isn’t just a mild nuisance.
That didn’t stop me getting full blown flu, though.

@wingingmumlife

I am absolutely prepared to get flamed for this but I am really worrying.

I am 22 year years old, healthy and unvaccinated (by choice).

I am not anti-vax, I have had every single vaccine from being a child to now and my daughter is up to date with all of hers too.

I work in dentistry and myself and 4 other colleagues have been told we have to be fully vaccinated by April 2022 otherwise, we lose our jobs.

I just can't believe it has come to this. I feel like my human rights have been taken away. I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I am a big believer in science but as a genuine question ... Can someone please tell me why this vaccine is being pushed so much to the point where soon we probably won't be able to even go into a restaurant without having this vaccine?

I have to wear AGP PPE every single day for every single patient but this still isn't enough?

I test myself every single day, but this still isn't enough?

Can someone please help it make sense to me? That is a genuine question.

Im not looking for an argument and I'm not wanting anyone to tell me "how stupid I am" I just want this to make sense.

For anyone wondering why I haven't had the vaccine - the main reason being, I have severe health anxiety, ironic I know since most would think I'd jump for the vaccine, but at the moment I'm more scared of this vaccine then I am of catching Covid itself.

I just feel sick to my stomach at the thought of not having a job unless I have this vaccine, it really doesn't sit well with me but everyone on here seems to be supporting it?

To answer your question in the most basic laymens way as to why:

It's because unvaccinated people allow the virus to contu=inue to spread unchallenged and thus mutate developing immunity to the vaccine which renders the whole vaccine useless for everyone over time - it's the most basic of evolutionary science.

My bigger question is why do some people think their right to be awkward for no reason is worth killing hundreds of vulnerable people and undoing the work of people who sacrificed themselves to try and save everyone?

It's being "pushed on people" because we are in a deadly pandemic and this is out route out of the god awful lockdowns.

Just get the vaccine.

I find it wild that people are still asking 'genuine questions' like this almost 2 years into a pandemic. Why is a vaccine that reduces transmission, hospitalisation and death being pushed in a pandemic? And this is a genuine question? Wtf is wrong with people

Sorry you are in this position OP. I truly think it’s against human rights to force people to have an unnecessary (for most) medical intervention and I think this will come out in time but this will take time which you don’t have.

I’m not anti-vaccine but I’m not pro—vaccine without consideration either. I think there are risks to vaccines that it’s very hard to talk about because the narrative has become too polarised. There is a grey area and there should be choice. There should be open debate about the pros and cons of continuing with mass vaccination. There should be open debate about the further erosion of civil liberties but it’s become so divisive it’s hard to do that.

For you OP, unless you have a history or family history of adverse reactions to vaccines then it might be worth you doing it and doing your best to manage the anxiety so you can keep yourself job.

It’s a horrible position to be in.

[quote howdiditcometothis666]@CJsGoldfish 4 people in Scotland have died from the vaccine (up to August) so yes there are downsides to it.
So I can totally understand why someone might find it difficult to take themselves to a vaccine centre and physically have a vaccine that might kill them. No matter how small the risk. I do not think it is my right or the Govt's right to demand that they do it.[/quote]
Don't you understand basic Maths/probability etc?

The number of people who have died due to the vaccine is staggeringly tiny.

Everything in life carries tiny risks.

Probably more people have died in car accidents/falls etc from the journey to the vaccination centre than due to the vaccine itself!

@Suspiciousmind20

Sorry you are in this position OP. I truly think it’s against human rights to force people to have an unnecessary (for most) medical intervention and I think this will come out in time but this will take time which you don’t have.

I’m not anti-vaccine but I’m not pro—vaccine without consideration either. I think there are risks to vaccines that it’s very hard to talk about because the narrative has become too polarised. There is a grey area and there should be choice. There should be open debate about the pros and cons of continuing with mass vaccination. There should be open debate about the further erosion of civil liberties but it’s become so divisive it’s hard to do that.

For you OP, unless you have a history or family history of adverse reactions to vaccines then it might be worth you doing it and doing your best to manage the anxiety so you can keep yourself job.

It’s a horrible position to be in.

There is choice. The OP can choose to get a different job to avoid having to have the vaccine.