I have to have the vaccine or I loose my job

[wingingmumlife]

I am absolutely prepared to get flamed for this but I am really worrying.

I am 22 year years old, healthy and unvaccinated (by choice).

I am not anti-vax, I have had every single vaccine from being a child to now and my daughter is up to date with all of hers too.

I work in dentistry and myself and 4 other colleagues have been told we have to be fully vaccinated by April 2022 otherwise, we lose our jobs.

I just can't believe it has come to this. I feel like my human rights have been taken away. I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I am a big believer in science but as a genuine question ... Can someone please tell me why this vaccine is being pushed so much to the point where soon we probably won't be able to even go into a restaurant without having this vaccine?

I have to wear AGP PPE every single day for every single patient but this still isn't enough?

I test myself every single day, but this still isn't enough?

Can someone please help it make sense to me? That is a genuine question.

Im not looking for an argument and I'm not wanting anyone to tell me "how stupid I am" I just want this to make sense.

For anyone wondering why I haven't had the vaccine - the main reason being, I have severe health anxiety, ironic I know since most would think I'd jump for the vaccine, but at the moment I'm more scared of this vaccine then I am of catching Covid itself.

I just feel sick to my stomach at the thought of not having a job unless I have this vaccine, it really doesn't sit well with me but everyone on here seems to be supporting it?

[quote SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius]@wingingmumlife - I understand you are very anxious about the vaccine - but would it help if you consider how many people have had at least one dose of it - 46,000,000 have had the first dose and 50,000,000 are double vaccinated - that is a massive test group, and there have been very few serious side effects reported.

Then consider the virus - I had covid in the Spring, and was in hospital on oxygen for a few days - and even though I wasn't particularly ill (I didn't need ventilation, and my oxygen saturations were low, but not dangerously so), it has left me with long covid. I get breathless walking to the loo and back, and even losing a bit of sleep leaves me shattered. I can barely do anything - yesterday, dh was working away from home, so I had to get my own lunch, do some laundry, empty and refill the tumble dryer, and feed the dogs - and just doing that short list left me trembling with fatigue.

It honestly isn't worth the risk.[/quote]
But the OP would still be at a ‘reduced’ risk from covid even after vaccination. I’m sure if it almost completely reduced the risk she might decide it was worth it.

@user698312578

“ The unvaccinated ... fuck me why not just start asking people to wear arm bands so that people can stand away from them in shops.”

Good idea actually and trust me they have been called worse.

I agree, that would be a good idea!

Especially as it's usually the ones not wearing masks who don't respect the personal space/social distancing of others - and those people are probably the anti-vaxxers.

[quote PigletJohn]@user698312578 "It’s disheartening that so much misinformation is being spread that too from people claiming to be from a medical background"

It would be even worse if antivaxxers were falsely claiming qualifications to give credibility to their made-up claims.

Wouldn't it?[/quote]
Lol I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt but yeah sad really

@ImJustADaddy

I think we should be very careful what freedoms we give up. Yes its all very good bleating on "just have the vaccine for gods sake - whats up with you" - but this person doesnt want to have it and that should be enough.

What if in a couple of years, some other virus comes out, and another vaccine that for whatever reason YOU dont want to have.. The presidence is set though now, vaccines can be mandated ..

If one person doesnt have freedom - then none of us have it. We should protect body autonomy , even if we think everyone should have the vaccine, we should protect the rights of those that dont want it

Why do people keep saying it's mandatory and bang on about bodily autonomy. It isn't mandatory, any more than having your bag checked when you fly is mandatory. You just won't be able to get on the plane. It doesn't mean you're in a police state.

I am currently on day 7 of Covid. I am double vaxed but missed my booster due to hospitalisation. I am immunosuppressed. Booster rebooked for yesterday which also had to be postponed. Therefore my vaccine efficacy has fallen now to about 42% .My Covid is less severe because I've had a vaccine. However it still means I have ;
Phenomenal fatigue. due to
A cough that makes me vomit.
Have been 'up' for about 3 hours in 6 days.
A frontal lobe headache like none other.
No taste.
Back ache like sciatic x 10. (Had to be helped off the toilet).

I was on the CEV list but felt secure enough after my jabs to return to work at the police station. I am a team of 17. Where EVERYONE is double vaxed because a) they are not selfish and b) they are well educated. I have worked there without incident since March.

8 days ago my dear friend Who is ALSO a dental nurse asked if she could stay over as she had an early morning appointment at her doctors (unrelated) and I live literally next door. She lives in the next town. I agreed.

When she arrived (on the bus) she said she had a headache. It didn't cross my mind that MY friend who knows my condition would be unvaccinated. She is so normal in other ways and of course a health care professional. 3 hours later she had a temperature. I asked her to do a LFT. She was reluctant as 'wears all the PPE at work', It took ten seconds for two bright red lines.

It took 3 days for me to get the same result. I am now having to be attached to an oximeter 3x a day and report my readings. At 92 SATS I have to be admitted. They are currently 94.

If I hadn't been responsible enough to get myself vaccinated I would be without doubt in ICU at the moment or dying. But hey ! That's fine. Because your anxiety and 'rights' give YOU the right to infringe MY right to life.

So wingingitmumlife Unless you are wearing PPE on the bus, in the supermarket, in your home, at the pub and at your friends... you need to stop being so fucking selfish and get vaccinated !!!

(My children are besides themselves with anger at this unbridled selfishness. My daughter wants her arrested under crimes against the person. I understand why.

@Rej92 I had previously read the study that you linked to at 10.54. Interesting and important.

It is very concerning that when the BMJ publish an account of serious flaws in Pfizer’s vaccine trial, many people simply don’t want to know about it.

@ADreadedSunnyDay

The health service cannot cope with Covid because it is not fit for purpose. I work in health and the bureaucracy and inefficiencies are ridiculous. I cannot watch the NHS is at crisis point stories anymore because there are huge and complex reasons for this. But this aside, the state of the NHS should not be an argument for people to be coerced into medical interventions.

Agree entirely.

I'm unvaccinated through personal choice.

I have no plans to get vaccinated, thankfully I WFH so I don't foresee my employers insisting on it. We do have KIT days in the office once or twice a month, if vaccination became mandatory for those I would have to remain at home.

It concerns me that those in backroom or office based roles where they have limited or not 'customer' interaction are being coerced into having a vaccine. It's a slippery slope.

[quote SW1amp]**@Phobiaphobic* @MadameGazellee*

How the actual fuck can you claim to have 'done your research' on vaccines, but yet not know that the AZ isn't an mRNA vaccine and ALSO not know what has happened in countries which have used the Chinese vaccines..?
www.nytimes.com/2021/06/22/business/economy/china-vaccines-covid-outbreak.html

FFS, this is why the Venn diagram of 'people who say I've done my own research' and 'people who should not be allowed to make decisions on anything more complex than their breakfast choice' is a circle[/quote]
You're the idiot, @SW1amp. Lot of erroneous assumptions. I DID do the research and insisted on having AZ PRECISELY because it wasn't an mRNA vaccine. I was offered Pfizer initially.

This is why the Venn diagram of 'people who make snap judgements about other posters' and 'people who should keep their snarky opinions to themselves' is a circle.

I am sorry it’s come to this. I am a health professional. Have had both of my jabs. Pro vaccination. Paid for chicken pox and men b for my kids etc.

But I believe that this is just political now. I think it is horrendous how we can bully people having something they don’t want. You cannot compare to the hep b vaccine. It is an established vaccine which people would have known about before training to become health professionals.

It’s easy to say either have the jab or go. This is peoples professions, their livelihoods. This is what they are trained to do. It is ethically wrong to do this.

Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m assuming you are a woman. Based on your age you would be receiving the Pfizer jab so straight away you can stop worrying about blood clots as they are a rare side effect of AstraZeneca.

The rare side effects of Pfizer are myocarditis but this tends to effect men more. Or you could have a rare allergic reaction but as you are up to date with your other jabs with no reaction I would think it unlikely. (I’m not claiming to be an an expert here btw just going through what i learned when researching before my jab)

When you actually have the jab you have to wait afterwards for 15mins in a supervised area so if you were to have a very rare reaction you would get immediate medical help from someone who is trained.

I sat in a full tent after both my jabs and nobody had any problems. I appreciate that any kind of injection can be nerve wracking but the vaccine volunteers and workers are very professional and helpful so everyone there was just chilling on their phones and no one seemed outwardly anxious and upset.

There are literally millions of people getting vaccinated every day and having no issues at all or the very common low level side effects which is a sore arm around the injection site or mild cold type symptoms for two three days which is your immune system responding to the vaccine. I don’t know anyone personally who has not been vaxxed and out of the people I do know only one had a cold and felt a bit achy, a few people go saw arms. I had a saw arm for a day but not as bad as when I had my pregnancy flu jab.

You can read up on all the advice about the vaccine on the gov website but when you go for the jab someone will literally sit with you and go through general health questions and make sure the vaccine is appropriate for you. You can ask them about anything you are worried about and they will likely be very helpful.

Another way to think about it is with the example of your job. You must regularly come across people who are terrified of dentists and have put off getting work done or who are afraid to have more fillings etc and worrying about pain or side effects of the local anaesthetic. I imagine you are very helpful and give them the best possible advice on the safety of what you offer and the health benefits of having infected teeth etc dealt with. This is the kind of service and advice you will get from the team who do your Covid vaccine.

Couple of other points:

You may be young which means that if you catch Covid you are less likely to need hospitalisation or die but you can still catch Covid and are still at risk of long Covid where the infection causes damage that effects your long term health. I have a friend who is relatively young and caught Covid before the vaccine was available. She only had it about a week and was not sick enough to be in hospital. Sadly the Covid gave her a heart condition that she needed an operation for and medication. She can no longer drink coffee or alcohol.

As someone who suffers anxiety/health anxiety myself I see the vaccine as a relatively known quantity I can research and make an informed decision about. Catching Covid is much more an unknown and my body could be affected in any number of ways by it. That’s why I chose to get the vaccine and reduce the chance of major illness.

Last, I imagine that as you are in a field of work that brings you into close contact with bodily fluids on a daily basis that this is the reason you are being told to get vaccinated. I appreciate you have to wear ppe but being vaccinated does seem like it would improve your own level of safety at work.

I do agree that it is sad and difficult that some people are having to make a choice about if they put their views about health freedom above their job but it is only in healthcare industries. I think the government should have put much more money and time into educating the public on the vaccine and the virus so that people choose to do it. As we are where we are, I think it is reasonable that people who work with the sick and vulnerable are not putting them at increased risk of sickness.

It’s not the case that people will need a vaccine to eat in a restaurant etc

Definitely try to do your research and make an informed decision but please try not to take peoples opinions and stories on social media as fact. A lot of those accounts have their own agenda and definitely don’t have your best interests in mind.

Why do people keep saying it's mandatory and bang on about bodily autonomy. It isn't mandatory, any more than having your bag checked when you fly is mandatory. You just won't be able to get on the plane. It doesn't mean you're in a police state

Exactly. And this very threadhas already covered that certain professions requiring employees to have had certain vaccines is not a new precedent.

OP, 3.22 billion people have been fully vaccinated against Covid now. I think it's time to just accept that it's not going to do you any harm. Either that or start thinking about new career options.

@olivehater Great post. I agree with you and I think many do in real life. This forum (and certainly this thread) are surely not representative.

because the rule has to apply to ALL healthcare staff or none. And there are staff nursing seriously ill patients who are unvaccinated. And there is a mountain of evidence that unvaccinated staff are more likely to pass the Covid19 virus on. And the virus can be fatal.

Thats it

And for people in the thread arguing about the state of the nhs there was a very handy graph in a bbc article yesterday. It is not just Covid that has depleted the capacity of the system

[quote Flyonawalk]@olivehater Great post. I agree with you and I think many do in real life. This forum (and certainly this thread) are surely not representative.[/quote]
I’ve never heard anybody in real life say anything like I read on MN, even the most pro vaccine I know are pro choice and very concerned where this is leading in fact, a few I know have said they now regret getting the vaccine as if they would have known the tactics now being used they would have declined.

honestly . How can you be so bloody selfish. Just have the fucking vaccination or accept a change in career

@closedown

Why do people keep saying it's mandatory and bang on about bodily autonomy. It isn't mandatory, any more than having your bag checked when you fly is mandatory. You just won't be able to get on the plane. It doesn't mean you're in a police state

Exactly. And this very threadhas already covered that certain professions requiring employees to have had certain vaccines is not a new precedent.

OP, 3.22 billion people have been fully vaccinated against Covid now. I think it's time to just accept that it's not going to do you any harm. Either that or start thinking about new career options.

This may be news but your bag isn’t actually a part of your body🤣 It is a totally new precedent and those suggesting otherwise are incorrect. This is the first time a vaccine has been required by law.

I don't think you should lose your job if unvaccinated. Totally opposed to it and I am not anti vax

Those of you saying there are no long term effects from the mRNAjabs, you are guilty of spreading mis information. It is not actually known yet and the CDC are studying it .....

"CDC is actively investigating reports of people developing myocarditis (inflammation of the heart muscle) after receiving a mRNA COVID-19 vaccine (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna). Most of these people fully recover, but information is not yet available about potential long-term effects. Understanding long-term health effects is critically important to explaining the risks and benefits of COVID-19 vaccination to the public and informing clinical guidance."

Rate of transmission only drops by 10% in AZ vax people as opposed to unvax and last for 3 mths. For Pfizer it drops by 20%. That is according to research I read in The Lancet.

There is natural immunity that gives you complete protection from Covid, superior to any vaccine. But not all/most people will not gain that level

You're the idiot, @SW1amp. Lot of erroneous assumptions. I DID do the research and insisted on having AZ PRECISELY because it wasn't an mRNA vaccine. I was offered Pfizer initially.This is why the Venn diagram of 'people who make snap judgements about other posters' and 'people who should keep their snarky opinions to themselves' is a circle.

Not the pp @Phobiaphobic but you seem to be ignoring any follow up questions about your claims... "We just don't know enough about the longer term effects of mRNA vaccines on human health. It took decades to prove the link between smoking and lung cancer, because epidemiology is a complicated science where you have to eliminate so many confounding factors."

There is no biological rationale for long term emerging side effects due to mRNA. It is degraded very quickly in vivo and cannot hang around for a long term period - has been problematic when attempting to design therapies where it would be beneficial to have mRNA active in cells for a longer time period. Why are you using smoking as an example when it is an entirely different scenario?

@howdiditcometothis666

I don't think you should lose your job if unvaccinated. Totally opposed to it and I am not anti vax

Those of you saying there are no long term effects from the mRNAjabs, you are guilty of spreading mis information. It is not actually known yet and the CDC are studying it .....

"CDC is actively investigating reports of people developing myocarditis (inflammation of the heart muscle) after receiving a mRNA COVID-19 vaccine (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna). Most of these people fully recover, but information is not yet available about potential long-term effects. Understanding long-term health effects is critically important to explaining the risks and benefits of COVID-19 vaccination to the public and informing clinical guidance."

Rate of transmission only drops by 10% in AZ vax people as opposed to unvax and last for 3 mths. For Pfizer it drops by 20%. That is according to research I read in The Lancet.

There is natural immunity that gives you complete protection from Covid, superior to any vaccine. But not all/most people will not gain that level

You have wildly misinterpreted this.

Yes, myocarditis or a CVST can of course cause long term health complications.

However these side effects emerge quickly -

@userperuser Same here. In real life I have only encountered respect and tolerance from people on both ‘sides’. I don’t know anyone who espouses bullying and coercion. Sadly the anonymity of the internet releases the ugly side of some posters.

@ollyollyoxenfree You know better than the CDC?

www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/myo-outcomes.html

@olivehater

I am sorry it’s come to this. I am a health professional. Have had both of my jabs. Pro vaccination. Paid for chicken pox and men b for my kids etc.

But I believe that this is just political now. I think it is horrendous how we can bully people having something they don’t want. You cannot compare to the hep b vaccine. It is an established vaccine which people would have known about before training to become health professionals.

It’s easy to say either have the jab or go. This is peoples professions, their livelihoods. This is what they are trained to do. It is ethically wrong to do this.

Better that they lose their livelihood than that they selfishly cause someone else to lose her life. Far better.

Choices have consequences.

But it’s Not about you OP. It’s about protecting citizens who are in close contact with you. As a dental nurse, you are very close to patients. I would want the nurse in the surgery vaccinated so I know I’m as safe as possible when I attend.
You are not always in the full PPE- only when you do certain procedures. So for a check up, you wear a normal mask which isn’t a FFP3.
You have a choice. Get vaccinated and keep your job. Or find a new one

@Finknottlesnewt

I am currently on day 7 of Covid. I am double vaxed but missed my booster due to hospitalisation. I am immunosuppressed. Booster rebooked for yesterday which also had to be postponed. Therefore my vaccine efficacy has fallen now to about 42% .My Covid is less severe because I've had a vaccine. However it still means I have ; Phenomenal fatigue. due to A cough that makes me vomit. Have been 'up' for about 3 hours in 6 days. A frontal lobe headache like none other. No taste. Back ache like sciatic x 10. (Had to be helped off the toilet).

I was on the CEV list but felt secure enough after my jabs to return to work at the police station. I am a team of 17. Where EVERYONE is double vaxed because a) they are not selfish and b) they are well educated. I have worked there without incident since March.

8 days ago my dear friend Who is ALSO a dental nurse asked if she could stay over as she had an early morning appointment at her doctors (unrelated) and I live literally next door. She lives in the next town. I agreed.

When she arrived (on the bus) she said she had a headache. It didn't cross my mind that MY friend who knows my condition would be unvaccinated. She is so normal in other ways and of course a health care professional. 3 hours later she had a temperature. I asked her to do a LFT. She was reluctant as 'wears all the PPE at work', It took ten seconds for two bright red lines.

It took 3 days for me to get the same result. I am now having to be attached to an oximeter 3x a day and report my readings. At 92 SATS I have to be admitted. They are currently 94.

If I hadn't been responsible enough to get myself vaccinated I would be without doubt in ICU at the moment or dying. But hey ! That's fine. Because your anxiety and 'rights' give YOU the right to infringe MY right to life.

So wingingitmumlife Unless you are wearing PPE on the bus, in the supermarket, in your home, at the pub and at your friends... you need to stop being so fucking selfish and get vaccinated !!!

(My children are besides themselves with anger at this unbridled selfishness. My daughter wants her arrested under crimes against the person. I understand why.

Very well said.