I have to have the vaccine or I loose my job

[wingingmumlife]

I am absolutely prepared to get flamed for this but I am really worrying.

I am 22 year years old, healthy and unvaccinated (by choice).

I am not anti-vax, I have had every single vaccine from being a child to now and my daughter is up to date with all of hers too.

I work in dentistry and myself and 4 other colleagues have been told we have to be fully vaccinated by April 2022 otherwise, we lose our jobs.

I just can't believe it has come to this. I feel like my human rights have been taken away. I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I am a big believer in science but as a genuine question ... Can someone please tell me why this vaccine is being pushed so much to the point where soon we probably won't be able to even go into a restaurant without having this vaccine?

I have to wear AGP PPE every single day for every single patient but this still isn't enough?

I test myself every single day, but this still isn't enough?

Can someone please help it make sense to me? That is a genuine question.

Im not looking for an argument and I'm not wanting anyone to tell me "how stupid I am" I just want this to make sense.

For anyone wondering why I haven't had the vaccine - the main reason being, I have severe health anxiety, ironic I know since most would think I'd jump for the vaccine, but at the moment I'm more scared of this vaccine then I am of catching Covid itself.

I just feel sick to my stomach at the thought of not having a job unless I have this vaccine, it really doesn't sit well with me but everyone on here seems to be supporting it?

I have an office based job, we have been told the same. It is have the jab or lose your job. We aren't customer facing, I have had my jab but do know there are some that haven't had theirs. They have been told they will not have a job if they don't have the jab.

If everyone had your selfish attitude we'd still be in lockdown. YABVVVVU.

@Lostinacloud

If there’s a 50-65% reduction in transmission amongst vaccinated people then it stands to reason that it will be the same, if not a slightly higher, figure amongst unvaccinated but previously infected people. Otherwise why is an antibody reaction caused by a vaccine any different to an antibody reaction caused by a natural infection?

I can’t see how it can’t be argued any different and in that case, surely there at least needs to be a differentiation between those previously infected and recovered and those yet to be vaccinated or infected?

Anecdotally, my family all had covid before vaccines were available and despite a further year with 4DC at school, living through Delta and not really limiting any social contact or movement, none of us have ever caught it again.

There are scientific (not anecdotal) studies showing that those who previously had Covid but are unvaccinated are 2x likely to get the virus again. The vaccine provides far higher protection. It is easy to google this.

@Phobiaphobic ". It took decades to prove the link between smoking and lung cancer, because epidemiology is a complicated science where you have to eliminate so many confounding factors."

No it didn't.

It took decades before the vested interests making money out of killing their customers and recruiting children as addicts to take their place, were forced to stop denying the truth.

@ADreadedSunnyDay

Hi OP - I've posted elsewhere on this but IMO vaccines should not be mandatory. I am concerned about the loss of human rights and bodily autonomy - it is a slippery slope. It should be every person's unequivocal right to accept or not any medical treatment or intervention. If not where does this end? I worry that so many people are so scared of Covid that they don't see the danger of this

It should be every person's unequivocal right to not have to come into contact with an unvaccinated person during a global pandemic hence the consequences of not being able to work as a dental nurse during the pandemic

[quote Rej92]www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635[/quote]
Doesn't know that AZ is a traditional vector-based vaccine, not mRNS based. And is happy to take the Chinese SinoVacc which is based on very old-fashioned inactivated virus technology a la smallpox days where you are actually being injected with the covid 19 virus itself, albeit heat treated (or whatever )to (hopefully) inactivate it ??

Incredible - I'd rather have any other vaccine than that one.

OP, I haven't read the full thread so apologise if repeating other people's advice.
This isn't really about the vaccine at all, is it? It's just about your health anxiety. If you didn't have HE, presumably you'd WANT the vaccine to protect you from Covid and long Covid, like the rest of the population.
You are just being crippled by HE.
Just like I was for 20 years. I advice getting treatment. In my case- medication- Fluoxetine (Prozac) changed my life, I and I have been living a normal healthy life ever since, free from ridiculous health anxiety.
In the meantime, get the jab. You'll be fine, just like everyone else is, don't get caught up thinking about the politics of it, it's perfectly reasonable for health workers to need to be vaccinated, when you think about it. It's not worth losing your job over is it? Until you get on proper treatment, practice mindfulness and breathing techniques when you start feeling anxious.
Good luck

@PigletJohn

"I am not anti-vax, I have had every single vaccine from being a child to now and my daughter is up to date with all of hers too."

It's terribly sad that the one time your aversion to vaccination arises happens to be when we're two years into a pandemic.

Exactly.

wrong quote sorry and mRNA not mRNS - but still, how can someone 'from a medical background' not know the difference between vaccine types and the the AZ one is not mRNA based!

@Hopeful201

I have an office based job, we have been told the same. It is have the jab or lose your job. We aren't customer facing, I have had my jab but do know there are some that haven't had theirs. They have been told they will not have a job if they don't have the jab.

It's not just customers who deserve to be protected though, is it?

What about your co-workers, clients, suppliers, maintenance, delivery personnel, etc., who come into contact with you during the working day who may be vulnerable?

The health service cannot cope with Covid because it is not fit for purpose. I work in health and the bureaucracy and inefficiencies are ridiculous. I cannot watch the NHS is at crisis point stories anymore because there are huge and complex reasons for this. But this aside, the state of the NHS should not be an argument for people to be coerced into medical interventions.

@Sonex

wrong quote sorry and mRNA not mRNS - but still, how can someone 'from a medical background' not know the difference between vaccine types and the the AZ one is not mRNA based!

It’s disheartening that so much misinformation is being spread that too from people claiming to be from a medical background

Op it might help you to know I have OCD, ADD and health anxiety.

I am also double vaccinated and I have just had my booster but I would defend anyone's right not to have the vaccine if they don't want to.

But there are two issues for you and I think you have put them together which is why you can't see a solution:

• your right not to have the vaccine
• your profession's right to decide that its better for their clients and the profession for its members to be vaccinated.

Long before Covid there was a time that other people in other professions where in the same place you are now. Some vaccines are mandatory in other professions - but they weren't always because there was a point they were also new vaccines.

You know better than most the fact the patient's mouth is open and dentist and staff working close by in small rooms makes this profession a higher risk than others.

One thing you are not considering is that you are looking at the world in the present - ie I am prepared to wear PEE so everything should be OK. But there are two issues:

1. clients not wanting to see healthcare professionals who are not vaccinated and
2. PE is expensive and terrible for the environment and its your generation that will be affected by this the most. It will take decades to break down the PEE people are using today and even then tiny micro beads pollutes our eco systems and enter living things.

It is likely vaccinating staff will be the first step towards the industry reducing its need for PPE.

With other vaccines they were used slowly on people over years. Yes this vaccine has come out quickly - but its been used on billions around the world.

I was first in the que for vaccination but I felt differently about my teen children. Then before she had an opportunity to be vaccinated my teen daughter without health issues caught covid. For 4 of the days she had trouble breathing and had to sleep sitting up. She was the family member I thought would be least effected by covid. Even now months later she still has taste issues. So when her brother had a chance to be vaccinated I took it - and I will give him a second vaccine if he is offered it. I will also vaccinate her.

Feb 2 is still quite some time to make a decision. I am sorry you are going through this - maybe you would have chosen a different profession if you knew this was going to happen. But I hope you understand now its not just about you - its about what a lot of patients want (and you can see by the responses lots of people are in favour) and its the expense and environmental issues of PEE.

Kikkomam
I don't believe people can get double vaccinated and then be so supportive of other people who don't want to get vaccinated

There seems to be an awful lot of them on Mumsnet

I am one of those people. I have been double jabbed. I work with pregnant women in a private capacity so I was able able to choose if I wanted to have it. I didn't want to but I had them because a lot of pregnant women have opted not to have it - which is understandable.

I didn't want to risk the chance of an unvaccinated pregnant women contracting covid from me and being seriously ill ( although very small) on my conscious because I physically come in to contact with them - even though I wear masks and gloves.

I was actually really tearful when I had the first vaccine - I didn't feel like hero or post it on Facebook - virtue signalling ect.. I just felt it was really shit situation that I was having to have a vaccine I did not want. That is genuinely how I felt. And still do.

In some people genuinely the feelings of not wanting a vaccine that most likely will carry no benefit to them is strong and instinctual. People are not stupid - they can access their own risks.

However I fucking hate the way people who have not opted to have it are now being treated. The unvaccinated ... fuck me why not just start asking people to wear arm bands so that people can stand away from them in shops. It's disgusting that the terminology is being used to create a divide in communities and the unvaccinated are a bunch of dirty diseased people.

Thread after thread discussing the unvaccinated. If it wasn't so vile it would be funny - you can actually find the swine flu threads from 2010 on MN and its the same only this time round its worse.

Parents berating other parents for not having their children vaccinated - and I wonder how those parents feel now in light of the cases narcolepsy that came to light YEARS after the kids where given the swine flu vaccine. The Government have only just paid those families out despite being dragged back to the high courts three times.

Its got absolutely fuck all to do with anybody else the vaccine status of another person. People that choose not to have the vaccine are not constantly carrying the virus around - if ever. Nearly two years in I still havn't had the virus - along with the other 50 MILLION people in the U.K . Nearly two years in and people are now starting to band the phrase The unvaccinated round like they have leprosy. Its a virus that people have a survival rate of 98% if you are under 80!

I feel this site is full of Government bots pushing this phrase and aggressive coercion or just complete curtain twitching w**kers.

As somebody who also works in dentistry, I had the jab as soon as I was able to protect myself and my family. Before COVID we were wearing PPE - it was found to be inadequate hence the FFP3 masks. We already have to have compulsory vaccinations to work in the profession

@Phobiaphobic @MadameGazellee

How the actual fuck can you claim to have 'done your research' on vaccines, but yet not know that the AZ isn't an mRNA vaccine and ALSO not know what has happened in countries which have used the Chinese vaccines..?
www.nytimes.com/2021/06/22/business/economy/china-vaccines-covid-outbreak.html

FFS, this is why the Venn diagram of 'people who say I've done my own research' and 'people who should not be allowed to make decisions on anything more complex than their breakfast choice' is a circle

I think there should be an option for those without the vaccine to have compulsory Covid tests at a regular intervals but at a testing centre. (I am aware of colleagues who don’t always do the Covid tests and just enter the test number online).
Also to wear enhanced PPE.
If I worked in dentistry because of the extremely high risk working around ones mouth I would ask to work on a less high risk area such as admin/reception. I wouldn’t want to personally make anyone feel they are at risk because I have made a choice that could potentially put others at risk so I would be willing to adapt.

@Sunshine1235

I’m so sorry you are facing this. How quickly we went from just vaccinating the vulnerable to sacking health hard working people who didn’t want it. Disgusting too that this deadline isn’t until April so they can use you for the winter and then drop you in the spring. This policy will destroy the NHS and the government will have the perfect scapegoat - the unvaccinated who they’ve already turned the rest of the population against.

It's not a policy that will destroy the NHS, it would collapse if there were too many unvaccinated people catching covid and taking up beds/resources thus stopping treatments for other people and other conditions.

OP I suggest you get an antibody test to SARS-COV-2 - then at least you'll know if you've already had Covid and have antibodies. That may help you one way or another to decide what to do.

I do suggest getting further help re health anxiety as it won't end with Covid.

I have to agree with onandoff here.

@ADreadedSunnyDay

Hi OP - I've posted elsewhere on this but IMO vaccines should not be mandatory. I am concerned about the loss of human rights and bodily autonomy - it is a slippery slope. It should be every person's unequivocal right to accept or not any medical treatment or intervention. If not where does this end? I worry that so many people are so scared of Covid that they don't see the danger of this

And they absolutely have that right. It's just that they may not be able to work in every workplace.

There are many rules that workplaces can set, and this is one of them. For most people on this thread, that's perfectly reasonable.

Would you think it's against your human rights to not be able to go to work in your bikini, to eat smelly foods at your desk, to make personal calls in work time? No one is stopping you wearing your bikini, eating smelly foods or making personal calls, but if you want to do that at work you'll lose your job.

@wingingmumlife - I understand you are very anxious about the vaccine - but would it help if you consider how many people have had at least one dose of it - 46,000,000 have had the first dose and 50,000,000 are double vaccinated - that is a massive test group, and there have been very few serious side effects reported.

Then consider the virus - I had covid in the Spring, and was in hospital on oxygen for a few days - and even though I wasn't particularly ill (I didn't need ventilation, and my oxygen saturations were low, but not dangerously so), it has left me with long covid. I get breathless walking to the loo and back, and even losing a bit of sleep leaves me shattered. I can barely do anything - yesterday, dh was working away from home, so I had to get my own lunch, do some laundry, empty and refill the tumble dryer, and feed the dogs - and just doing that short list left me trembling with fatigue.

It honestly isn't worth the risk.

“ The unvaccinated ... fuck me why not just start asking people to wear arm bands so that people can stand away from them in shops.”

Good idea actually and trust me they have been called worse.

@Instagram

If I worked in dentistry because of the extremely high risk working around ones mouth I would ask to work on a less high risk area such as admin/reception.

Dental nursing and admin are completely different jobs - one is clinical, one is administrative. What happens if there isn't a vacancy in admin/reception? You can't just force a receptionist/administrator to become a dental nurse to do a swap! What happens if there are several dental nurses who all want to work in admin/reception?

@user698312578 "It’s disheartening that so much misinformation is being spread that too from people claiming to be from a medical background"

It would be even worse if antivaxxers were falsely claiming qualifications to give credibility to their made-up claims.

Wouldn't it?